“Still Here, Praising God” and “Cancer Survivor. Life Survivor. You Can Survive Too.”-Joseph Lenard

David W Ebel: to pull back and actually end up sitting on the curb watching life go by. than to get up and try again because we don't want to get hurt or wounded or disappointed or or live in distrust. But I'm here to tell you that God is real and he can't wait to do something beautiful in your life. And that's why we're here. We bring we bring real people with their real stories to talk about God with you. And today we've got our my friend Joseph Leonard and Joseph is is from he's from Michigan like I am. So that makes him a special friend automatically.

Joseph M Lenard: Ha ha.

David W Ebel: And but Joseph, you'll I'm glad you're here. Welcome.

Joseph M Lenard: yeah, a Michiganian. We are not foul Canadian geese from across the border. We are

David W Ebel: Yeah.

Joseph M Lenard: it's great to be able to be here with you.

David W Ebel: so as we as we move forward, tell us a little bit about yourself so that we're not talking to a stranger.

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah, I Michiganian and born in Southeast Michigan, s down river community, southern suburb of Detroit in Wayne County. I'm not fond of the winters, but yes, I'm still here. You know, I I'd like to be living in Vegas or Miami, but you know, that's

David W Ebel: You're still here.

Joseph M Lenard: j yeah, I'm still here. And yeah. Growing up I'd always been in a creative family. That's why I'm both I'm an author or a podcaster and a songwriter these days, because I'm on disability now, have been since 2004. I had an IT career and all the late night wake ups and stress and all that caused my body to basically shut down. So what can I do from my couch? I can do this. Right? As well as write books and write music. I use Suno AI now. My dad had a three record deal. It was Ted Leonard Jr. and the Polka Kings. For those of you who may like Polish music. I didn't write and record Polish music, but I did write and record, you know, the old fashioned way with instruments and all that, back in the day. But since I never got a record deal. eventually it sold off all the instruments and equipment. But today now that I'm stuck on my couch a lot of time, I discovered Suno AI Music System. So they allow that wonderful creative outlet to to happen again through them. So that that kind of brings us where we are today.

David W Ebel: All right. Well thank you for for your your your honesty and your transparency. what to do with real people.

Joseph M Lenard: sorry, I keep cutting you off. I'd be I'm joking about the hairdo or the lack thereof. Went through cancer in twenty ten, so the lack of hairdo here.

David W Ebel: no, you're just a smooth brother. All right. So we're moving moving forward, the the first of our simple questions we always ask is Who were you before you found Jesus?

Joseph M Lenard: Well that's that one becomes well, it's actually kinda easy for me. I grew up in a very religious family, so Jesus was always part of my life from the get go. I never really kinda knew a time without Jesus being part of the family. And indeed, you know, my Lord and Savior. And

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm.

Joseph M Lenard: over time, of course, since growing up in a Christian home, I didn't want to just automatically take for granted because it God gave us all free will. God gave us a higher functional brain ability. It would be a shame to waste it. So, yes,

David W Ebel: Amen.

Joseph M Lenard: I looked at the other face by comparison. To learn about them and understand them. Like Buddhism, I've got no problem with it as a philosophical tenet. I wouldn't accept it as my faith, but meditation is a wonderful thing. It's okay to borrow that. It's a good thing. But I Remain a Christian, always have been, unlike a Lee Strobel, if you remember him, the New York Times bestseller, who was a journalist, he married a Catholic, he was an atheist. He decided one day I want to write articles for my paper debunking Christianity. And what he landed up doing? Making himself a Christian, because the more he looked into it, The more he realized, wow, this isn't just psychological mumbo jumbo. This is all wonderful and real. And you may remember then he wrote the New York Times bestseller, I'm drawing a blank now. the case for Christ. He set out to write a book debunking Christ and ended up becoming a Christian.

David W Ebel: Christ debunked him.

Joseph M Lenard: Amen. Yeah. Hey, and God uses imperfect souls for his purpose at times.

David W Ebel: Well there's no other kind. So he if he's gonna use the Bible tells us for all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. None is right, not not even one. So if he's gonna work through anybody, he's gonna have to pick a broken one. But

Joseph M Lenard: Amen. Yes. we are all I say this on my Christitutionalist show all the time and in my books. We are all human, frail, flawed, imperfect. There was only one perfect being ever walked this planet, and they crucified him.

David W Ebel: Yes. So let's so when you when but there's usually a point in everyone's life, even if they were raised in it, when they go, I want to get in deeper. I want to give my whole self all the way to Jesus. Was there a moment like that for you? a line in the sand.

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah, it's a yes and a no kind of thing. I guess the answer is kind of yes after I got sick. And again, thinking, well, if I don't have my IT career that kind of defined who I was, I think a lot of people go through this. Who am I now? Right? And what is my purpose? And my Life and Living series of books always talks about that and addresses that. All life has value and meaning, whether we see it or not, like my the Book of Kennedy project Carpe Diem. Kennedy, a the only book with a female lead in it, ponders, is life nothing but a set of mediocre days with a few bright moments, you know, mixed in? And for most people, that's a yes. Your life isn't like a drama or a thriller on TV. Some people's lives are that complicated, but a for a lot of people, media

David W Ebel: Most people

Joseph M Lenard: yeah, mediocre and mundane is the norm. That doesn't mean it lacks value. In fact, I've got several songs on that that Kennedy stared at the ceiling for one, and you could find though that tiny URL dot com slash JLD on Suno. JLD for J Leonard Detroit. And I forgot to say at the top, Joseph Leonard. It looks French. It's not Lenard. It's Leonard

David W Ebel: So so when you got sick, then you that was you that was that was quite the crisis. And I would I would

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah, I I started questioning. Yeah, absolutely.

David W Ebel: assume that at that point you you went to Jesus and said, I want to rededicate myself deeper. I want neat more of you, I want to s I want to dive off the cliff of faith and have you just catch me. All all the things I thought were gonna work in my life, they haven't turned out so good. Here I am. But now that I'm here and I still got years to go, I don't want to do this without just a picture of Jesus that I grew up with. I want to have a full fledged, in my heart, in my life surrendered, born again experience. Is that about right?

Joseph M Lenard: Absolutely. I rededicated my life to him. And okay, I'm here. we talked before we hit record. People say how you doing? I say, could be better, could be worse. Cause I understand a whole lot of people have it better than me, but a whole lot but for the grace of God, go the I as the saying goes, right? Without Jesus, my life could be a heck of a lot worse. So I understand that and I recognize that and I considered it then a calling and why I'm publishing international books, why I am doing a Christitutionalist podcast, why I am mostly but not entirely some secular recording Christian music through Suno. To let people know again the Life and Living series, tinyurl.com slash Life and Living series. We'll get you to that or Joseph Leonard on Amazon, of course. You may not see it, but your life has value. Again, it may not be like it's a wonderful life. You may, you know, the Jimmy Stewart George character. Clarence comes down and shows what life would be like without him. Well, you may not have saved somebody who then goes on to be a war hero. You may not stop a pharmacist from poisoning a child and destroying several families' lives.

David W Ebel: Yeah.

Joseph M Lenard: It's the little things. Kennedy in the Book of Kennedy Project Carpedium comes to understand. It's the little things that That we don't even pay any attention to on a daily ba basis that add up to a broader, greater sum total that we don't ever see, don't ever recognize, that matters down here on this fallen earth, right? Like sharing a smile. It's fictionalized, but it's a quasi-real world situation. Kennedy Shares a smile with Sam at the ice cream parlor where Sam, the divorced dad, is there with his two girls and they're of course acting up. He's having trouble getting them to get their order of ice cream. And Kennedy shares a smile. It costs nothing to share a smile. Sam smiles back, but what Kennedy didn't know. is Sam was considering ending his life. And after that his day was better. He went on to remarry. They then had a child who went on to cure cancer. It's like the movie Butterfly Effect also, right? One small little s in fact I've got a song called Butterfly Effect also. Right about that. One little little thing that exponentially grows into something wonderful you may not pay any attention to doesn't mean it isn't there.

David W Ebel: Joseph, you've packed a lot into that little that little piece. And and but I think it's important for people to realize that ordinary people is who we are. Extraordinary people are exceptions. That's not bad nor good. It's just we're not all born to be phenomenal because if they were all phenomenal, there'd be no one to run the the planet. We all have our place.

Joseph M Lenard: If everyone were special, if everyone is special, no one is.

David W Ebel: And we're all different pieces of the body of Christ. And different pieces do different things. And when we look at that, in the church, that means there's pastors and prophets and all these other things that are exceptional. But there's also teachers who don't have to be in front of people. They can be teaching a Sunday school class. They could there's there's prayer warriors who no one ever even knows that they pray, but they make a powerful difference in their lives by just being them. There's all kinds of different ways you can you can let God love through you. But the key is you gotta you gotta not let your past stop you from having a today and a future. And I've I'll I know for me I've had a I've had more than my share of challenges. But I looked at those challenges one day and said, Jesus, if you're real, I'll give you my life. Just just make it real. And he did. And now I'm 74. I suppose the doctor said I'd be dead at twenty. So all those years from twenty to seventy-four have all been him. And there's been

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah. Yeah.

David W Ebel: stacks of miracles. Things were, you know, what what's a miracle? When God moves, whether he gets credit for it or not.

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah, and people can hear more about that because we discussed it in September when you were on Christitutionalist politics. So but I

David W Ebel: Exactly.

Joseph M Lenard: wanted to share something else that we discussed before we started recording.

David W Ebel: Well, okay.

Joseph M Lenard: we we we did a prayer

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm.

Joseph M Lenard: and one of my s Christian songs I created the Asuno AI. Is online church because we also before we hit record this this isn't about the buildings, right? There Dennis Quaid coined a term which I think is great, churchianity. There's a whole lot of buildings that may have a steeple on them, but they're really humanist clubs. There's not a whole lot of Church of Christ going on in them. But I wrote a song called Online Church, right? Wherever two or more are gathered. We have an online church here. You and I and the audience. We are gathered in his name. He is with us. This is every bit as valid and important as that building with a steeple.

David W Ebel: I agree. And and that's see, I've served as an evangelist and hit almost every denomination or non-denominational, interdenominational or flavor of kind of a denomination, that fifty years. I was on the road for twelve, hitting a different church every week, forty forty-eight weeks a year. So I know a lot of what can be different, but what makes a church really a church is Jesus. Not the building, not all the window trimming, the the Jesus. God created the world. He created man and man and and he told man, don't just don't know this one thing. Do anything else you want. Just don't disobey me. So what do they do? They get snaked into a disobedience. And when they get when they disobey, then God has says, Well, I'm sorry, I created a perfect world for a perfect person. So I'm going to close that world and you're going to live in the world that's that's left. And And here's going to be the rules. I'm going to give you the the Bible as it is in in rule form and you're going to live by it. If you live by it, we'll find a way to forgive you. If you don't live by it, you will have condemned yourself. But then people got sneaky. They began to they found out that when you when you did how God arranged for us to get get forgiven, was you would buy you would either raise or buy an innocent lamb or an innocent dove. Something that was totally sinless, and you would bring it to the priest, and they would sacrifice it, and by the shedding of his blood, God would use that bl he would look at that blood as is hidden. So we would he would look at this the blood instead of at the sin, and he and we could have a right relationship. Then then somebody got smart in his eyes, not real smart, but he thought he was smart. He d he he went and got his lamb and took it with him to the house of of ill repute, did all the things he shouldn't be doing. And then took the lamb to the to the priest and said, God f Father, forgive me for what I just did. And God was done. He knew that that that process had failed. Man was too far gone in it in their innocence of their heart to to to act like that. So God decided to send his own son, who was born as a ch a baby, lived an innocent life without sin, lived a sinless life for thirty-three years. And during his years on earth, he never sinned. He never failed. He never lied. He never cheated. Now he lived on he felt what we felt. He heard what we heard. He he was betrayed. He was cheated. He was abused. But he never failed. So that at the end of his life, he allowed himself to be crucified, which was the electric chair of that day. He allowed himself to be tortured and slaughtered. So that the blood that he shed would wash away our sins. So our sins wouldn't just would wouldn't just go away for a little bit. They would be as if they never were. Because when God sees this the shed blood of Jesus, that that sin is gone. It's erased. It's permanently gone. And when that happens, we have a brand new relationship with God. And that's where the hope is. That's where the promise is. Because when you ask Jesus in your heart, He takes that blood and washes away your sin. Then his Holy Spirit begins to to to dwell in your heart, to be a part of you, leading and guiding you and helping you and directing you. And when all that happens, the most amazing thing is he builds a relationship with you personally. And it's not going to be the same as mine. Your Joseph's relationship with God is going to be different than David's, which is different than Bill's or Sue's or Diane's or whoever's, because it's a personal relationship. God meets us where we are, flaws and all, words and all. He loves us where we are. And as we allow him to, he leads us and guides us and heals us and restores us and renews us and rebuilds us until one day we look back and can't believe how far we've come. Because God has done all that work in us

Joseph M Lenard: Yep.

David W Ebel: and we've and we enjoyed the the trip. It wasn't all horrible like we expected. There were some really high points in it. Not all perfect, but God gives us high points along the way. And God works through us. And then as we mature, Then he trusts us to love more people and more people. And that's what you do with your books and with your music. That's what I do with my podcast and with with the books that I've written and the the website I have that provides all the different benefits. It's these are all ways to love people. Not to make money, but to to love people and and encourage them to trust God. Not trust everybody else. Trust God. It's like going to a buffet. You go to a buffet and you look at all that food and you go, I gotta I I I gotta try all this. And one of your friends leans over and says, Don't eat the green stuff. And you go, man, that doesn't look too bad. No, no, don't eat the green stuff. We still don't know what it's called. Don't even eat the green stuff. So what do what do we do? I'm better than that. I can handle that. We put a big glob of that on our plate, right along with everything else. And who gets sick to their stomach and really is miserable? The one who He's he's he's taking in everything, not just the good stuff. He poisons himself with the stuff that's not from God. Instead of just benefiting from the things God planned, we get snaked in again. And we d we try the gr the the the lies, the cheats, the things of this world, the green stuff. And so what happens is when we finally are sorry for that, the Bible tells us that when we confess our sin, he's faithful and just to forgive us of our sin. And of all the unright things we've done, so we get we get forgiven again and again and again and again. So there's always hope. You can't sin far enough that you can't be restored. You can't be you can't get to a place of unforgivenness because God has chosen to forgive. If you'll accept his son, the forgiveness is available for anyone breathing on this planet. They just have to be willing to accept the free gift of forgive forgiveness that comes through Jesus.

Joseph M Lenard: Amen. A couple things I took notes. So otherwise my ADHD will get me. And if I don't stay on track, my O C D may get me. So well first off, blood. Jesus became the final blood sacrifice. That did not. erase the entire old testament, however. It just erased that part. That's why the old

David W Ebel: No. It completes it completes the chapter.

Joseph M Lenard: right, it it's why the old testament is there. Because well, let me just move on and out of Jesus did have the human experience. He understood our animal Another song of my inner animal, right? We we are emotional creatures, even though we're given higher Jesus experienced those emotions too. Remember throwing up the tables of the money changers? He experienced anger. So he understands us unlike wait, but anyway, just like and the other,

David W Ebel: Leave it that way.

Joseph M Lenard: yeah, the we need to be of Christ, not of a denominational building.

David W Ebel: Yeah, there there are some good churches and I will and I'll say that

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah.

David W Ebel: I want to clarify that. All churches aren't bad. But it's but there are some, but there are some

Joseph M Lenard: not trying to say that. Yeah.

David W Ebel: there are some that that have allowed themselves to go on a left turn or a right turn into a to into a place that isn't scriptural and they act like it. And if

Joseph M Lenard: Correct, correct.

David W Ebel: you know, i you're always safe if you can you can read your Bible and take it through the filters of does this glorify God? Does it unify the body of Christ? Does it line up with God's word? In the scope of eternity will it make a difference? If you can get past those four things, you're not going to do a lot of these rabid things that are on the outside. Because you're you you choose to bring yourself in line with what the word of God says and do that and do it in love. Because Jesus told us to love each other like he loves us. He didn't say murder each other because he loves us. So we need to, we we need to apply it with love.

Joseph M Lenard: Although for all things for all things there is a season. It is not contradictory when it says turn your sword into a plowshare. It is not contradictory where Jesus said, Those who have a garment, let them get a sword and learn to use it. Those aren't contradictory. Contextually, they apply different times, different places. So it We need to, that's the reason I started my show, the whole Bible in full context. And you're right, some good churches, some bad churches, but what Jesus never said, go forth and create a thousand churches in my name. Yeah, nope. Wrong answer. We frail, flawed, dumb humans, did that. That's why there are so many different versions of the Bible. And we

David W Ebel: Yes.

Joseph M Lenard: have to be careful to come together in the things that like that's why I love the Dead Sea Scroll findings so much, validating a lot of the books, you know, that are there that they haven't really changed, or indeed where such and such flavor. Clearly change that. I like to talk about pride. The sin isn't really pride, it's pridefulness or hubris. There's a difference. I should be proud of little Johnny hitting a walk-off home run at Little League. I should be proud of little Sally getting all A's on her report card and letting her know how proud I am of her and to keep up the good work. That's different from hubris where, God owes me all the answers. Sorry, no he doesn't. Some things are

David W Ebel: Yeah.

Joseph M Lenard: our and always will remain above our pay grade.

David W Ebel: when you were talking about the all the different flavors, how I look at it, having served in so many different ones, is that man's attempt to relate build a relationship with God ends up being the flavors of the denominations. It's all of our this is how we worship, this is how we feel we're we're closer to God. These are the different ways that we feel invested. On the other hand, God only needed one way. He sent Jesus. So we we can love everybody. We don't have to agree and eat off each other's forks. We can love each other, we can we can coexist, we can support each other and all the things that are mattered that are really matter, and and Jesus is the main one. Because God gave us Jesus, we can not only be forgiven, but we can learn to get along. We can learn to serve it and and and be and let every each we don't all have to be the same. We don't have to convert the universe to be a a this or a that. We can just let Jesus convert our hearts to his love. And then God will move us to where we belong in a church. It'll be a church that's biblical. It'll be a church that's loving. It'll be a church that's encouraging. And if you can find a church like that, you should dig in. And if you don't, keep shopping.

Joseph M Lenard: Yep. And we can try to get along, but as Kennedy says, some people make it hard to love them. Right? We are to

David W Ebel: Well, yeah.

Joseph M Lenard: love. That doesn't mean we have to put up with them. Sometimes

David W Ebel: Well well there

Joseph M Lenard: You know, the old adage, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. Well, you don't want to you want to love them, you want to pray for them, but you don't want to surround yourself with those people

David W Ebel: Well let's

Joseph M Lenard: because they will drag you down.

David W Ebel: Joseph, want to clarify something here. There's different kinds of love. So when when we we're when God called us to serve him, he didn't say go out and build a bunch of these or that's. He said go into the highways and byways and compel them to come in. Compel them to come and accept me. That's our first thing. And and to love each other as I've loved you. God loves us works and all. God loves us when we stink. God loves us when we're miserable, because that's the only kind of people there is. And he created them. So he loves them with all their problems. So we need to learn to coexist without approval. We don't have to approve of their failures. We don't have to approve of the things we disagree with. We just have to not allow that to become a rubbing point and to spend our life being offended. We in that so many people now are offended if you, I'm this and you're that. Well, I don't, you can't be your friend anymore because you're that. I'm sorry, but there's there's no scripture for that. That doesn't mean that I no for the all the fifty years I was in ministry, no one knew if I was a Democrat or Republican because it was inconsequential. What was consequential is are you a believer or not? Do you have Jesus or not? No, if vote, I have already voted. I and I always vote. And I'm I have a flag out front of my house and I was I served as a chaplain on a Marine base for four years. I'm not about not being loyal to my country. But my priority is Jesus. It's not all these other things. So when I run into somebody that I don't agree with, that's okay. I don't agree with them. That doesn't mean I can't I can love them from the from what I don't mean so love them from afar like to Texas. I'm not talking about I I'm talking about I love I don't need to take them home. I don't have

Joseph M Lenard: Correct.

David W Ebel: But I can coexist and I can get along pleasantly. And if they don't want to be pleasant, then you love them from a greater distance because they chose that. But you don't let it be a wall between you and anybody.

Joseph M Lenard: Amen.

David W Ebel: I'm a salvation army officer. If there's any kind of a group of people that loves everybody, it's us. And that we choose that. We we we we commit to that life of loving whosoever will. And this week alone I've I've led two Two people who live off the streets that are in very spiritual disrespect. I led it to the Lord this week. And they hugged me and thanked me and told me I was the most wonderful thing in the world. And I kept saying, no, no. You've all now you've met the most wonderful thing in the world. I'm just the mailman. I'm just bringing you the message. Don't don't put me in don't even give me a step stool this tall. Listen, I'm just a guy. He's the God of all this universe who's come to forgive you. So let's keep it focused on God loves you. And because

Joseph M Lenard: Yep. Yep.

David W Ebel: He does, I love you. And that doesn't now that doesn't mean that the one guy I led to the Lord has got a drug problem still. So I don't approve of the drugs, but the drugs aren't his big problem. The drugs are a symptom of his greater problem. So I need to love that greater heart, that who they really are. And then God will work out all this other stuff. That's what recovery is all about, is God restoring

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah. But Yeah.

David W Ebel: what man has tried to destroy permanently. So I agree with you that we need there's not everybody's going to come home with me at night. Not everyone,

Joseph M Lenard: Ha ha.

David W Ebel: not everyone's going to get if I have an access to my checkbook. But

Joseph M Lenard: Ha ha ha.

David W Ebel: but on the other hand, I'm not going to not treat them decently. Because as God loves me, I will love them, because that's my job. My calling as as is his servant is to love whoever the best I can. The best I can. That's

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah. Yep.

David W Ebel: the key. I don't have to to say, hey man, that's really great that you poke holes in your bodies all over the place and and put hooks in it and torture yourself. And I have no know a couple of people who do that. I can't even do it go to get a blood test without having shivers. So when I look at that it it just terrifies me. But they're still the soul that Jesus loved.

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah.

David W Ebel: They're still the person that God sent his son to forgive. And with that in mind, as long as they put the needles and the hooks down, I'll hug them. Because

Joseph M Lenard: Mm-hmm. But I do I do want to add, to push back just a little, Jesus we're talking about love here. And Jesus did say, turn the other cheek. Give grace.

David W Ebel: Yes.

Joseph M Lenard: Because everyone, even good people, can have a bad day and maybe tr

David W Ebel: Absolutely.

Joseph M Lenard: maybe treat you badly. You give grace and give them a chance to treat you better and treat them well. Treat each other as we want to be treated. But at the same time, it doesn't. Jesus never said, always be a sucker. Jesus never said, allow yourself to be continually abused. There is evil and we must confront it. And regarding the biblical four loves agape, Eros, Story, Anaphilia where Philadelphia, the city of bartherly love, comes from, but most people living there today think it was named after a pony.

David W Ebel: Okay. and I'm I'm not disagreeing. We don't need to we don't need to volunteer for abuse. There's no way in this world that b biblically is appropriate. But it it's not not our job to to to push them away and it's our job to protect us. And to coexist in the world in which we live. I've I've actually had to call the cops and and have a couple protect you know self-protection things put out because people decided that they didn't want me to still be alive. And you know, I don't mind dying, but I want it on God's terms. I don't need any help from anybody else. So it i I don't have to co I don't have to get along and approve. and and and say hit me again harder but i do need to to show them basic mercy basic mercy but the

Joseph M Lenard: Yes.

David W Ebel: the this whole podcast is not about how bad bad get it's about how god shows mercy how god loves you how god created you to be loved when we were created before we were even a twinkle in someone's eyes god sent sent his holy spirit touched our hearts so that we have love and we have forgiveness and we have hope built right into us. That's who that's that's in our spiritual

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah.

David W Ebel: DNA. So that when we come to a place in our growing life, when we need God, we have hope. We have faith. We have those things already predisposed for us. So that you know it they're there. It's up to us to accept Jesus, but God has kind of gently stacked the deck So that we can if we will. So it

Joseph M Lenard: Mm-hmm. I I

David W Ebel: so that's our focus for this podcast is keeping us on track to come on, folks. I know you've been hurt or wounded, or you've been disappointed, or you're dealing with somebody who's been all those things. Let's get them off the curb and back into living for God. And we'll let bigger other things deal with the fish. The bigger fish will fry later. Right now let's just get us straight with Jesus. let's talk about first off, you I understand you have a book or two. What it tell us the name of of of the one that you think w that we would want to read.

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah, well My running joke is, how dare you ask that? So that's like asking a parent who their favorite child is. But but so let me answer this this way, though. I will talk talk. I've got a dozen international books. I'll mention my latest, roller coasters the life kind. So I'll just talk about the latest. It's about loss and grief. And sometimes the guilt and regret that may come with that. So,

David W Ebel: Yes.

Joseph M Lenard: especially in this time now where we had all the recent spat of celebrity deaths. Patrick Stewart just died again the other day. So we at times gloss over and don't talk about the grieving process. Shock, denial, anger, acceptance. Doesn't mean forgetting. It means learning to deal with and better yet remembering those we've lost, honoring those we lost by helping extend their legacy, not

David W Ebel: Yes.

Joseph M Lenard: letting them be forgotten. So acceptance

David W Ebel: Amen.

Joseph M Lenard: acceptance isn't forgetting and moving past, it's just a new phase. Of the reality we have to deal with till it's our time to go.

David W Ebel: Okay. And I I that I want you I want you folks to know to know that that I really support the particularly the topic because my training is in grief, trauma and loss and I so but the key about grief is it's God created us with a steam valve, if you will, so we don't explode when we grieve. So there's different s there's denial. There there's there's the all these different steps along the way. And if you're stuck with all that grief and you don't have a way out, you can come to my website and and and message me and I'll provide you a book that walks you through the stages of grief and helps you work your way through it. If you don't have a human to do it for you that you can talk to face to face, just leave me a message on my on my podcast website, and I'll make sure you get one.

Joseph M Lenard: And it's important we understand if someone has has experienced a recent loss, to be understanding. They may be in the shock, the denial, the anger phase. and we have to be understanding of that. And the only thing, only time it's a problem is if someone stalls or can never move.

David W Ebel: Yeah. Yeah. But

Joseph M Lenard: and eventually towards the moving on.

David W Ebel: we're we're we're gonna deal with we're gonna deal with the average person, not the one to get stuck. When the ones

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah.

David W Ebel: who get stuck, we could they we can we could hook them up with somebody to help them s with skills to get past it. There are people who are very skilled at that. But for right now, for today, the the average grieving person is going to have those different steps. And we want them to understand that they're not broken. That they're they're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with them. God

Joseph M Lenard: Correct.

David W Ebel: created this coping mechanism called grief so that the op the the loss doesn't destroy us completely. We could we

Joseph M Lenard: Amen.

David W Ebel: can manage it over time. Now on on the flip side of that, what we can do for those grieving people is we don't need to say, okay, it's been two weeks already. Can you get over this thing? no, it in

Joseph M Lenard: Right, that's not

David W Ebel: because What's gonna happen is one day they're gonna grieve and then they're gonna, darn. now I get it. But until you get it, sometimes you wanna schedule it on and say, Can you do that on our on our lunch break? Because I'm I'm really busy right now. And that it that's not compassion. That's not that's not thoughtfulness and kindness. And but your topic's amazing. Now also

Joseph M Lenard: Y you raise an important point. Not everybody immediately grieves. Some of them, yeah.

David W Ebel: It could take a year, two years.

Joseph M Lenard: It it's kind of the shock phase, but na i you know, it's not ignoring it, it's not being delusional. It's it's I've got there

David W Ebel: No, it'll come out when it comes out.

Joseph M Lenard: yeah, there are things that need I got a funeral to plan. I gotta I gotta do this. I gotta do that. I g I I will grieve later. And that's okay

David W Ebel: And yeah.

Joseph M Lenard: too.

David W Ebel: Yeah, exactly. So what I want to do is I want you then to give us the name of the website. I've got you've got to have a website that lists all your friend your little your your your book children. I want you to give us that nice and slow so we can write it down and then they can go and read all about the rest of your book children, those that are so valuable to you and would be invaluable to us. So what is the website where they can they can learn about all your other books?

Joseph M Lenard: Well aga Joseph Leonard again, Joseph Leonard dot us is my author site. for each of the five currently independent standalone each has a new primary character but they all relate to aspects of life and living hence roller coasters

David W Ebel: Here you go.

Joseph M Lenard: the life kind dealing with lost because it's part of life and we've got to learn to deal with it better.

David W Ebel: Yeah, I agree. now we are we're just about out of time, so I'm gonna have to re I'm gonna have to reel us both back in a little bit here, because we've covered a lot of ground and the average viewer listener listens about thirty to forty minutes and th and then they're they kinda glaze over in their eyes and we don't

Joseph M Lenard: Mm.

David W Ebel: wanna put them to sleep while they're driving. So I'm going to I'm gonna do this. We're gonna pray. I'm gonna pray for us. Then I'm gonna have a challenge and during that before that we pray though, I'm gonna mention the website this hosts. It's the God Says Yes Podcast dot com. And it it not only provides the a place for you to see all of our our our interviews, we're we've got over seventy so far since January. That's a good When you come to the website, they're there for you. This is your opportunity. And what I want you to know is that not only are the podcasts there, but there's tools for counseling, there's tools for encouragement, there is beautiful pictures that you can find. There's even some humor there. There's a lot of ways for you to be loved and encouraged. But you can't get that if you don't go and check it out. Godsays Yespodcast.com. And I gotta tell you that the people who are finding it are finding it incredibly helpful. It all started with the with the podcasts, but it has grown exponentially beyond that. So there's more ways to love you and to serve you. And that's what we want. let's pray. And then I'll give the challenge and we'll call it a day. And this this one

Joseph M Lenard: Yeah.

David W Ebel: and we'll we'll take we'll take all that Joseph has said as our golden nugget today and and you take it with you. Think about what he said. Apply it to your life. Find out what God can do in your life because you trusted him. So let's pray. Heavenly Father, we praise you and thank you for the privilege to to to serve you and to share your love. We pray, Lord, that something good will happen. For because of the divine appointment, for those that listen to this and get something out of it would be restored, renewed, rebuilt, encouraged to get off the curb and get back into life and do some beautiful things with their lives. Let them realize that the worst that have they've had isn't the end of their life. It's the beginning of the best of their life as you become the king and the leader of their life. You don't promise it's going to be perfect, but you promise you'll never leave us or forsake us. You'll be with us always. You promise us hope. You promise us joy and all kinds of beautiful things among the difficult and challenging times. But we're not doing it alone. You're there with us. So bless each of the viewers and listeners. Bless Joseph and and all the work that he's doing for you and make a difference in the lives for eternity because we have trusted you in Jesus' name. Amen. Now

Joseph M Lenard: Amen. Yeah.

David W Ebel: the challenge is this. You want to know God? Seek after him. You really want to know him. Seek Jesus. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. Go seek Jesus. He'll introduce you to God in a deeper way than you've ever dreamed. Then when you live your life with Jesus leading you, with God and blessing you, and through the Holy Spirit directing you, your life is going to be so much better than you ever dreamed. Trust God, He has a plan for your life. Seek after God. You will be found. And that's what we're here for.