From Doubt to Trust- Doug Ell

David W Ebel: Hello and welcome to another episode of God Says Yes. My name is David Ebel, and I'm your host. After fifty plus years of ministry, I still have a desire, a heart burden to reach those who struggle or those who are helping someone through a struggle so that we don't get stuck on the side of the road, sitting on the curb watching life go by, when God has a great plan for our lives that conclude includes us being active and and actually victorious. it we can have a wonderful life because we trust God in spite of how we got there. Whether we've been wounded or we've been hurt or we've been let down or we've done wrong things and we don't think we're even worthy to come to God. This is a chance to find out what God really thinks and how much He created us to love and will always love us. So we're we're excited to have this continuing and we're happy that you're here. And my guest today is Doug Eli and Doug is an interesting man very, very experienced, done a lot, and he and he's got a personal relationship with God of his very own. And that's why we're here. So Doug, welcome. We're glad you're here.

 

Douglas Ell: Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

 

David W Ebel: And thank thank you. can you tell us a little bit no, you know, married kids collect llamas who are you?

 

Douglas Ell: no llamas. four kids, five grandkids. I am seventy-seven years old and retired. I live in Florida. I was a pension lawyer, fairly high powered, working out of DC for 40 years. but now I try to spread the word about God and give reasons for God because I was a doubter.

 

David W Ebel: I belie I believe you. There's a I meet a lot of people who the reason why they don't trust God is no one's ever proven that he's real.

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: And so it's a valid concern. And you're you're you're not the fiftieth person I've had this

 

Douglas Ell: It's a huge concern.

 

David W Ebel: discussion with.

 

Douglas Ell: It's a huge concern. And my most recent book is called The God Proofs, where I prove the existence of God three different ways. It's a graphic novel, and it's written for you know, 10-year-olds and up, including

 

David W Ebel: Cool.

 

Douglas Ell: a lot of adults. there is enormous evidence for God. You have to be open to it.

 

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm. when I got started in the seventies, a new book had just come out called Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. and he was a professor, very mentally high powered, and he he was an atheist with it with an edge. And by the time he got done trying to prove God wasn't real, he couldn't stop proving that God was real.

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: And but when I read that book, I have you know, I'm considered pretty smart and you know, I couldn't get past the intellect. I didn't know how to trust anything but was safe between my ears. So the night I gave my life to Christ, that was the first time I ever trusted something completely. That was him. So I'm I'm just I'm just grateful you're here. So we wanna have something for everybody and I think you're gonna be a a wonderful encouragement to many.

 

Douglas Ell: Thank you.

 

David W Ebel: So simply we we have a few questions we ask and it's not hard at all. It the purpose of it is just to help our guests understand what's going on in our lives. So the first question is, Who were you before you met Jesus?

 

Douglas Ell: I was a fairly snotty nerd, I would say David. I thought God was a joke, that you didn't need God to explain anything, that quote, science had figured stuff out, which shows a totally false sense of what science is. Science is just a method, it's not a religion. But I I was at MIT, I ended up graduating early, and I I thought this God stuff was nonsense. And then when my son was born, I was in my early 30s, David, my wife said and said, Well, we ought to take the kid to church and get him baptized, which really surprised me because we weren't going to church, you know. But I said, Yes, dear, I mean, you know, whatever you want, sprinkle some holy water on the kid, you know, knock yourself out. But we went and I realized I was missing out on something. something much more valuable than success or money or prestige. And I missed the peace that those people in that church had. I just knew that I was on the wrong path in life. So I told myself though, you know, Doug, you're an MIT guy. you can't believe in God unless you can find evidence. So I'm now spent decades finding evidence and it's more and more, David, every day. It's

 

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm.

 

Douglas Ell: there's stuff coming out all the time.

 

David W Ebel: Yes.

 

Douglas Ell: and I've tried to follow it. It's too much for me, but I f try to follow it. I try to write a little blog about some of the stuff, which I should write more often, but it's just so wondrous all of it. And there's no reason to be intellectually afraid of God, if that's a phrase, you know? I mean It's the evidence is there and I try to help people see it.

 

David W Ebel: And that's powerful. So and and and I don't say that just placating you. That that speaks to me and I'm I'm sure it'll speak to others. Because it a lot of us somehow along the way, if we can't prove it, why is it real?

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah. Well everybody does nobody wants to be conned. And you know, people want to know things are are for sure. And the scientific evidence for God is overwhelming. Absolutely, totally overwhelming. And i I think it's only the devil that keeps people from seeing it, frankly. I think spiritual warfare is a real thing. I think we are led down wrong paths of pride and similar by the devil. But if you open your eyes to to facts, I'm talking proven scientific facts, not you know, just theories. It's it's overwhelming. let me give you my number one if you if you'd like it, David.

 

David W Ebel: Sure, go ahead.

 

Douglas Ell: So, are you familiar with something called the search for extraterrestrial intelligence called SETI, SETI? So

 

David W Ebel: yeah. Mm-hmm.

 

Douglas Ell: then you've probably seen the pictures of the big radio telescopes, you know, at this at the sky. And they're looking for signals. And what kind of signals are they looking for? So do you know the answer to that? They're

 

David W Ebel: Anything.

 

Douglas Ell: looking for code, right? So there's actually a movie, old movie with Jody Foster, but I'm an old guy. So I saw it, and where, you know, supposedly in this fictional movie, they find code and it's instructions for building machine and so on. but they're looking for code. They're looking for signals in order that make sense, not just random, because everybody knows that code can only come from a mind. Now, people have spent 50 years Maybe sixty now looking for code. They have found it nowhere in outside this earth. Except they have found a code far more complex than anything human beings have ever built. And that code is inside you, it's inside me, it's inside every living organism. And we know it. Shorthand for it is DNA. Okay. So DNA is a four-letter code, has four different groups of atoms that the order you put them in transmits information. So I think it's God's writing. Okay. We write in English words and sentences with spaces. So there's 26 letters and spaces and so on. And that's our our code for Transferring information by writing. Computers

 

David W Ebel: Yeah.

 

Douglas Ell: use bits, you know, on and off. That's their code, a binary code. Well, the code of DNA is four letters. We have, and it's inside us. I mean, Bill Gates, who knows a bit about coding, said it's far like it's like computer code, only far, far more complex than anything human beings have ever built. This is proven scientific fact. I mean DNA is in everything. And it's also proven that It the complexity is just staggering. More and more we discover just it has two layers of information at least. That was a finding

 

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm.

 

Douglas Ell: of over 400 scientists released in 2012. they published that the human body we have in our code we have four million switches to turn our systems on and off. So you can't get And it's fairly easy to show mathematically, and I do it in my book, The God Proofs, you can't get code by chance. So I mean, as as St. Paul says in in the first chapter of Romans, I mean, the evidence of God is overwhelming if you look at the things that He has made, and the living creatures He has made show us that life was designed. And that God is real. And that's just one in my other books. I mean, I've gotten into many other areas, David, but I like to start with that one. I just think there's no there's no counter to it.

 

David W Ebel: Well, and I I wanna get to the other the other stories that you're going to tell, but I I w I gotta get back to our personal piece. When you when you when you gave your life to Christ, what was it like? What did how did it change you? What what how did it be personal? Everybody has their own personal relationship.

 

Douglas Ell: for me it's been a gradual journey. but

 

David W Ebel: Yes.

 

Douglas Ell: over the journey I've definitely become less less anxious. you know, I trust God.

 

David W Ebel: Mm.

 

Douglas Ell: you know, the word the the Greek word for f faith in the New Testament is Probably trust is a better translation of it. learning to trust God in my life, letting go of the anxieties, being calmer, being nicer to other people and not being, a snotty tech nerd. so it's just helped me in so many ways to appreciate the wonder and joy of existence. I mean it's incredible.

 

David W Ebel: Well, one of the beautiful things is that when we were created by God before we were a twinkle in our parents' eyes, he were created with with faith and hope, wired into us, that one day when we needed it and we and reached out for God, He would be He already gave us the tools to be able to begin that relationship. That's amazing. And

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: then as we get we give our heart to Jesus later when we realize we need him, the first thing he does is is when we confess the the our willfulness, our our stubbornness, our our self will. When we do what we God told us not to do, then that's called a sin and no sin gets to heaven. So God sent his son Jesus to be an innocent sacrifice in our place. In the old days they took a a lamb and they'd kill it and the blood would the innocent lamb's blood would hide our sin from God. Well when people started getting sneaky and and and buying the lamb on the way to doing the dirty work, It God sent Jesus and Jesus became the innocent Lamb of God. And when He died and shed His blood, it was to wash away our sins. So that we have a free, open communication that's permanent between us and God through Jesus. And that changes us through his Holy Spirit. It g it it gives you that tenderness. It gives you the hope and the joy and the peace and all the beautiful things that you've discovered that come out of that wonderful relationship. And I've had people say, Well, I gave my heart to Jesus, it didn't happen. Well, maybe we need to try again. Because maybe, like I, it takes a few tries before it sinks in real good. Because I get in my own way. The only

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: I problem I have is I get in my way. And so I think for all of us, we have to come to that point that you've come to and that I've come to, that God is real, in spite of the intellect, in spite of all the other things, we have come to a realization that we want it not only here. But we want it to run all of us, including here.

 

Douglas Ell: Yes, yes.

 

David W Ebel: And when that happens, the beautiful things start happening. That doesn't mean we don't have tough times. It doesn't mean we don't struggle. But we're not, he says he'll never leave us or forsake us. He'll be with us always. So he's with us on good days and bad. And when we get a chance to do a podcast together, he's always with us.

 

Douglas Ell: Always.

 

David W Ebel: So so w now now we've talked about how you got there. Now how has he changed you?

 

Douglas Ell: it's well like I said, David, it's it's made me calmer. enjoy life. the

 

David W Ebel: Did it change your practice?

 

Douglas Ell: well my practice just blossomed. I mean it just grew and became very successful. there's all these outward benefits, but what's important is the inward benefits. I think as you grow closer to God you you realize that the outward appearances of money or success or something are basically rubbish.

 

David W Ebel: Yeah.

 

Douglas Ell: you know, and that's what Saint Paul's calls all the accomplishments he did, and it's so right, I think It's just It's just taking the anxiety away. You know, there's so much anxiety in this world. I mean the f the fear of this or that, you know, and you know,

 

David W Ebel: Yeah. More than ever.

 

Douglas Ell: what we're gonna eat, what we're gonna wear, and you know, Jesus says, Don't worry about that stuff. Stick with me.

 

David W Ebel: Exactly. So a as a result of that, now you've got a l a life you can share with other people.

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: And so for our viewers and listeners, what based on you though your experience, what hope do they have that they could get off that curb that we started talking about, watching everything go by, and and get involved in a a a a faith built life?

 

Douglas Ell: Well they have to ask for it, but you know I was watching a a short video man named John Lennox, he's an English mathematician who's debated Richard Dawkins. And I've met him, he and I were speakers on the same program once. And one thing he said I saw that really impressed me was. He said Christianity is verifiable. j just look around. I mean, how many people have been s saved from drugs or addiction by atheism? How many people have been saved from you know suicidal thoughts by atheism or for a sense of loss by atheism? none. But Christianity has changed lives. and will continue to do some because it's it's God. So if you know there's a God and you know it in your heart, and I try to help people with that,

 

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm.

 

Douglas Ell: it I think it opens the door. And then maybe, you know, the door that the devil wants to slam in your face and maybe you can maybe you can see the see the light.

 

David W Ebel: Well one one thing some people who aren't going to church are around it when they hear of the devil they they have a cartoon picture of him in red underwear with a pitchfork and horns. But the reality is that he was the most beautiful angel in heaven and vanity

 

Douglas Ell: Yes, yeah.

 

David W Ebel: got in the way. He took a third of the angels in heaven, got them to believe in him, and tried to do a revolt and God fired him, kicked him kicked him out

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: of heaven, changed his name to to f from Lucifer to Satan. And and in that process, he no longer can get to go to heaven. He can no longer have the spiritual things we have. But because he he was a spirit being, he had some power. And he twisted that.

 

Douglas Ell: yeah.

 

David W Ebel: He because God loves us and we are loved by God and we tr he God wants to have a relationship. Satan doesn't want us dead. He just wants us looking everywhere but to God who created us. He wants us to be miserable. He wants us to be lost in our heads. Get lost in our situations and never find out how what peace and love and and and contentment can feel like from the inside out. And but so Satan is is a deceiver, he's a f he's a liar. He tries to come at us with thoughts that aren't true, accusing us of things that maybe were part of our our history that have long gone. He doesn't deal with our today, he deals with everything we can get our eyes off of trusting God. So when we when we hear about him, It's it this isn't about powers powers that are gonna grab us in a nightmare in a in a in a monster movie. This is spiritual real warfare where Satan, God's chosen enemy, God didn't make him an enemy, Satan chose to be an enemy. So when Satan took that, that that bait and went that way, he does have some power and he and he loves to try to hurt us. But when we put

 

Douglas Ell: Yes.

 

David W Ebel: our trust in Jesus, Jesus died and shed his blood so we'd be washed away of our sins. We'd be free of those things, and all that power no longer is a part of us. So we'd we're not that person anymore. But it's it's important, it's important you brought it up because not everyone does, that it is real. Spiritual warfare is an incredible

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: thing because God is through his Holy Spirit is fighting on our behalf to keep us safe, to keep our minds clean, to help us to make it through the tough times. It's a it's it's a it's a spiritual lifetime experience. And I so I'm grateful you're here talking about it. Now you've you've got more than one book, and

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: we're gonna we're gonna invite when when this is done, you're gonna send me a picture of of your your main book, the one you want

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: us to to do, and we will we will we'll post that in the in the interview, but in the link you'll provide for us, we'll we'll encourage people to go and see all the other books and get in get interactive with you because you've got a lot more to tell than we're gonna tell tell today. And I want people to to get to know what the Jesus you know, the the the relationship you have, how it's personal for you. Because I think that's tremendous. And it's not a you don't need a lightning bolt experience. I my medically God did that for me because I was dying. But the best miracle is the g when He God meets you when you're not drowning, when you're not dying, when you're not in a crisis. He meets you where you are, has a personal relationship with you. And prevents you from some of the pain and suffering this world would offer and draws you close to him. That's a bigger miracle to me by far. I was the guy in the in drowning and someone threw out a life preserver, and I didn't go, no, no, I want the blue one. I was just grateful someone reached out to save me.

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: Guys, guys that that didn't drown, almost drowned, they they had to make that choice. Like you said, you have to ask for it. But if

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: you ask for it, God is real and he'll make it happen. Because you finally opened the door to that faith and that hope that's always been there for you. So tell us about your books.

 

Douglas Ell: Well, I've written four. got a fifth one in the works. The I started my writing with a fairly technical book, David. it's called Counting to God, and my website, my primary website is counting to God dot com. So I published it in two thousand fourteen. It counts, because I was a math major at MIT. So it it counts through the seven primary areas of science that show the existence of God. Creation, why does anything exist? why is the universe fine-tuned if you look at the laws of physics, and so on, through our wondrous earth and, you know, even into an area called quantum physics, which is to me absolutely shows the existence of God. I when I the book was published in 2014, I gave a lecture at MIT on it. in front of a somewhat skeptical group of MIT professors and students anything, but it's on YouTube. I'm proud of it. And then I wrote a book called The God Proofs, which is my minister said that my first book was too technical. You know, I had about a dozen scientists review it, had all sorts of hundreds of footnotes and things. and so I wrote a simpler book with a dialogue called The God Proofs. we've redid it into a graphic novel called The God Proofs, which is published by the Discovery Institute out in Seattle, world's number one organization showing God's design in the universe and in life. And So there's another website, thegodproofs.com, which we've done some videos on it. And it's I love hearing some of the comments on Amazon and things, David. I'll give you one example. A woman at my church a few months ago said she gave a copy to her grandson, about 10 years old, and and He came over for dinner and thanked her and he had read the book about ten times. Couldn't stop thanking

 

David W Ebel: I love it.

 

Douglas Ell: her. Yeah. and then I've also written a novel called Rise Above, just to which was really fun. and it's a story of a very rich and sad guy who finds God in terminal cancer. And I used it as the story where he argues with his daughter, who's an MIT math professor, and his son-in-law who's a Harvard physics professor, and they argue over the existence of God with others. So

 

David W Ebel: You had to get it in there somehow.

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah, just I don't know, God gave me a plot literally when I was

 

David W Ebel: I love it.

 

Douglas Ell: sleeping at night, and I decided to to try to write it. And it was a lot of fun because I like to get up early. you know, I'm an old guy now, so I Typically up by like 5 a.m. And I get into my computer and see what the characters were going to do that that morning. It was it was a lot of fun writing it. so just gives me joy to share. I've written the script for a new graphic novel. It's gonna be called True, about the truth of the Bible from Genesis and on.

 

David W Ebel: I want a copies of your books. I want to read them.

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah, I think the world really needs that because yeah, there are over a hundred scientific facts, David, that show the universe is only thousands of years old. you know, this billions of years stuff is is a shell game based on incorrect assumptions of atomic dating. And which it's it's all real, it's all wonderful, the Bible is true. So

 

David W Ebel: Exactly.

 

Douglas Ell: It keeps me busy.

 

David W Ebel: Good, good. Well busy's what we need to be. All these gifts and talents he's given us don't need to sit on a shelf. We need to use them for him. So you're you're doing the the wise thing. So we ask each guest for a golden nugget. That's something that our our viewers and listeners can when the when the video's over, but the thoughts are still churning, what would you want him to think about in the next week or so? what Well what speak to them for and then while they're thinking about it.

 

Douglas Ell: Sure, so here's what I'd like them to ask themselves the question. Why does anything exist? Where does it all come from? Why does anything exist? Now science tells us the universe had a beginning. Something outside of this universe had to create this universe. you don't have to know the laws of physics to realize that. Not only did God create matter, but he created time and space. Time had a beginning. So why does anything exist? I think if you ponder that question, you

 

David W Ebel: Mm-hmm.

 

Douglas Ell: will realize, start to appreciate

 

David W Ebel: Uh-huh.

 

Douglas Ell: the wonder of God.

 

David W Ebel: Yes. So with all that in mind, I'm I'm excited to see what happens next with your stories. And I was serious about wanting to read them. They that's the kind of stuff that that catches my ha my eye and makes me want makes me want to stop everything else I'm doing and and absorb it. So we'll have to work something out on that. But in the meantime, the most important thing is God created every one of us particularly

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: love. This is our chance to be loved and to to receive his love and to learn how to love back. Not only love God, but love the other people around us. That's why Doug is different, is because he didn't just g receive something, it changed him enough, now he wants to give it away. And the neat neat thing is with God, the more you give away of his love, the more he gives you back. It's an un unreplen it's a replenishing supply. It's it's an unending. You can't g run out of God's love. Matter of fact, the more you you get used to having it, the more you want to give it away because you see how it changes lives and touches hearts. And that's why we do God Says Yes. Now, we have a website that we invite all of you to, which is God Says Yespodcast.com. We'd invite all of you to come and visit it. sign up for the the so that we can send you notifications when the next podcasts come out. But when you do. I'm giving away my my book. God says when the doctors say no, God says yes. My twenty dollar book, I'm giving it away for free, along with a devotional that was written just for you. When you that comes immediately, you can download it the minute you sign up. And that's my way of saying thank you for joining our our growing family of God says yes famil friends and family, our local community. It's local is with those that are look locating their hearts in Jesus. That's what make met that's what makes us local. Heaven's our home and we're all family there. We want you to be a part of it too. But right now, before we close, Doug, I want you to tell us the name of your website nice and slow so that us who have to grab a pencil can write it down.

 

Douglas Ell: Sure, David. Counting to God. Dot com

 

David W Ebel: Okay, that's the one and then there's the second one.

 

Douglas Ell: Second one is the God proofs. dot com. Anyone anyone who's got children wants to they'll enjoy the two-minute videos on it. It's it's a very fun website.

 

David W Ebel: Well, our ministry for twenty five years was focused on reaching kids so that they didn't grow up to be adults with that not knowing what I didn't know. So

 

Douglas Ell: Yeah.

 

David W Ebel: we you know, you you're speaking in my language. I appreciate what you're doing, particularly. Now, it this is one of those times when I don't want the story to end. And I hope for our our viewers and listeners they don't hope that they hope that doesn't end either. So I wanna encourage all of you, get involved in what Doug is doing. Be a partner with him in reaching lives, change lives. And for that matter, you can even be a partner with us. There's a place to on the website you can join and be a partner helping us help reach more people for the love of God. But we're going to finish with a prayer. you take what we've heard today and and take it and put it to work in your life. So let's pray. Heavenly Father, we're just so grateful for the joy that you give us. When we give our hearts to you, you become real for the first time. It travels that six million mile trip from the head to the heart, where the mind has kept us safe. But the heart, when we spiritually speaking, is the open place where God can seat Himself and love you and guide you and direct you. Not as the king of your life, but as your brother in Christ, God's Son. makes us family with him. Lord, we pray that you make each of those viewers and listeners come to the grips with the idea that you were that they were made to love, that you were always loved, and God can't wait to get have a relationship with them. We pray, Lord, you reveal yourself to them, not only physically, spiritually, but in every way. Touch their bodies, touch their finances, everything they need. Bless them and be a blessing in their lives in Jesus' name. Together we say, Amen.

 

Douglas Ell: Amen. Thank you.

 

David W Ebel: The challenge always is, you want to know more about God, seek him. You really want to know him, seek Jesus. Jesus said he was the way to God. So you want to know God deeper and better and more. Seek after God and Jesus will show you how. Don't be put off by others. Find out for yourself who Jesus really is.