David Savage

David W Ebel: Welcome to the God Says Yes podcast. You are welcome. Hello and welcome to another episode of God Says Yes. My name is David Ebel, and after fifty years plus of ministry, I still have a heart for people who struggle. That's who I was, and that's who a lot of people I know are. People who who have the best of intentions, and someone has either hurt them or betrayed them or belittled them, or di dishonest with them, or not paid them back, or did something spiteful, and it's caused. them to feel sp spite back or carry bitterness or unforgiveness, which poils kind of poisons our heart and and makes it hard for us to be able to to love or to trust. And we end up being like the person sitting on the curb watching life go by and almost hesitating about getting back in because of the pain that it feels and the awkwardness that is there. And the do I really want to trust again? I will assure you that Most of us will have gone through that at least once. But the thing is, it's man that has failed. God who created us, you and me, he created us from the beginning. Before we were a twinkle in anyone's eye, we were created in the image of God from the inside out. We don't look the same because that's not what was God's first important thing. It was the personal piece, the inside piece. And once we give our heart to Jesus, we give him room to to become all that he desires to be. ⁓ He's planned for us to be our whole lives. And in that regard, ⁓ no matter how who's what done what, we're we're at today. Not about the history that's there and it's real. It's about what we do today and how we can change our tomorrow. Because we we use the little bit of faith. God put that faith in us before we were born. Faith and hope, they're not new concepts. They were built in. It's just that we have to be in a position. Where we let God be in charge of us instead of all the hurts and wounds and and things that have happened to us which hinder us. So this is a chance for you, the listeners and the viewers, to hear, be involved, and meet real people. Real people who love God and have a real story, and that's why we're here to tell that real story and hopefully help you find a little bit of hope along the way. My friend and guest today is David Savage. David is a is a is I've discovered is a beautiful guy. He's a he's got a w wonderful heart and he loves people like I do. And I'm really grateful that he's here. And I and David, welcome. I'm glad you're here. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on, David. Could you tell us just a little bit about yourself so we're not talking to a stranger? Sure. ⁓ well I ⁓ am from Texas, man. I love Texas. Everything about Texas. ⁓ we're proud people. And ⁓ I was born in San Angelo, Texas and ⁓ grew up in Texas. I went to Texas AM University and got a degree in civil engineering, then ⁓ worked got my professional engineer's license and then converted to chemical engineering and had a a very successful career in the energy business, traveling all over the world, ⁓ retired as a global energy executive selling ⁓ specialty chemicals for an alcohol chemical, ⁓ to the refining and petrochemical industry, you know, across the globe. So, you know, I was going to the Middle East and you know, it was very ⁓ I'm a kind of a geopolitics ⁓ wonk man. I just love studying that and ⁓ always have taken a great interest. Also very very involved politically, ⁓ which has been a real disappointment. I've I've poured a great deal of time, talent, and treasure into the political process. I've been ⁓ chased to run for office ⁓ for more than sixteen years. I was a delegate to the national convention in two thousand and eight and again in twenty twenty four. So for sixteen years there was like really, really involved trying to like save America, you know, on my own, pridefully. And of course, that didn't work. And so ⁓ I I retired and and I I decided, you know what? I'm not gonna spend all that time, talent, treasure on politics and trying to ⁓ you know, bring back some of the things that I like about what made America great. I I'm gonna devote myself more to ⁓ to young men. I have a real passion for young men. I ⁓ have always been blessed with many friends. And ⁓ I was, you know, in scouting and was in the Order of the Arrow program, and that that that's called the Brotherhood of Cheerful Service. So brotherhood has just always been ⁓ a constant throughout my life. ⁓ when I went to Texas AM, ⁓ my freshman year. I was summarily dumped by my girlfriend that I fell head over heels in love with in high school. And it was a real transformative moment because I had a tender heart, you know, until it was broken. I mean shattered. And ⁓ and so then I ⁓ I pledged a fraternity and you said, Look, I'm not gonna let any woman turn my head, you know, when I got this scholarship here to get an engineering degree from this great university. So if I even begin to feel a little bit vulnerable in a relationship, I'm gonna break that relationship off. David. I don't don't mean to in interrupt, but I have a question. You're you're making me ⁓ making me think here. ⁓ so wife, kids, dog ⁓ sure, yeah. Well so I I have ⁓ four kids, two stepsons and a son and a daughter. ⁓ they're thirty four, thirty six, thirty eight and forty. And ⁓ I have two grandchildren now and I'm about to have two more. ⁓ almost on the same day in January of twenty twenty seven. So I have a grandson ⁓ who will carry on the savage name, which is a great name. Everybody always tells me that. I'm checking into hotels or using my credit card. And then ⁓ my wife's name is Kimberly. It's my second wife. So we've been married next year will be twenty five years. And ⁓ and then, you know, part of my story is how not choosing the right woman to marry because of this immaturity, you know, over female relationships because I basically just stunted myself after that. And then I also had a lot of divorce in my family right as I graduated. So I was just like, if there's one thing I want to leave your listeners and audience with, especially to young men, the most important decision you'll ever make in your life is who your life mate's going to be. And you can say that you're not going to have one, but God wired us that way. And so you can't, it says, you know, in Genesis two eighteen, the Lord God said it is not good for man to be alone. And that's the first time he said anything was not good in the Bible. I will make him a helper suitable for him. And so I it took me until I was forty and found Kim ⁓ for me to kind of get all that right. Well but you got it. And that's the that's the important part. God may be patient, but he does he does eventually get your attention. Yes he does. And that's a good thing. So now how did you find Jesus? Well, I had a drug problem. You see, my mom drug us to church. And and ⁓ so I you know, we were a military family and you know, my mom was living in Germany with four kids, you know, when she's twenty eight years old, my dad's flying all over doing top secret stuff. And so, you know, I think that built in her a need, you know, a genuine heartfelt need for faith. ⁓ because you don't have any family or anybody around you, ⁓ you have your other Air Force families which become like family, but and so ⁓ we went to the Protestant church on the base, you know, ⁓ in the same when we were back in San Angelo. And so then ⁓ when I was 13, she wanted to go to the Methodist church that was ⁓ near the university, Angelo State University there. And she worked at that university. And so so I was confirmed and baptized at age 13. You know, and I knew what I was doing, what I was saying, you know, because I went through the whole confirmation process in the Methodist church and then ⁓ was baptized and it was very strong in my faith. You know, I was ⁓ a real straight arrow. I had excellent grades, you know, I was a a straight A student and salutorian in of of my junior high, and then I was like fourteenth out of six hundred in high school and I school was just easy for me. I was blessed. And so ⁓ you know, I just had a good life and and I ⁓ was very involved in scouting. And it wasn't until like I said I had kind of this you know got dumped, you know, by this girl that that I I kind of turned away. You know, that's what happens to most most of us today is when you when you leave home and you leave that shelter and protection and that the and and you're kind of wondering, well, okay, I I've kind of received all the instruction that I'm gonna absorb from my parents. And now I'm gonna begin to question, you know, whether those things fit. you know, for me. And so I was going to church for a while, but then I fell away, you know, when I was in ⁓ in college and ⁓ you know, just partied. ⁓ I still was able to keep my grades and work and everything else, but ⁓ I wasn't really too active in my faith. And then ⁓ as I started to mention earlier, that year that I graduated, my parents got divorced after 31 years, my brother and his wife got divorced of his infidelity, and then my sister's husband ran off with another woman, and all that happened. in nineteen eighty two, the same year I graduated from college. And so I just was like, Man, marriage just isn't for me. I'm not I'm not gonna get married. And I was ⁓ very hard hearted about it. And, you know, I had diagnosed in my mind that ⁓ they all got married too young and maybe if I made it to twenty eight that that I could, you know, have a different path. So so basically I had no development in terms of having a ⁓ a real relationship with a female ⁓ until I was twenty eight years old was without even entertaining it. I I still wanted them for physical reasons and ⁓ and so, you know, that was ⁓ an exploitive period of my life, which I'm not proud of, but you know, that was that was where I was at. And you met well when you gave your heart to Jesus, how did he change you? Well, you know, it wasn't that big of a transformation ⁓ when I was thirteen. I I mean, because we'd been going to church and I believed in him and it was just kind of a natural progression. I I was a good student of the Bible. I really wanted to learn more. But I would say ⁓ you know, I went I got married to a woman from Mexico City, in Mexico City, when I was twenty eight. And then we had two children. And when I became a father is when it really, really hit me. ⁓ you know, that was the first time in my life I can honestly say that I loved someone else more than myself. And I would have died for those children, you know, instantly right there if that was called upon. So I wanted to be the best father I could be. And and I went on this spiritual retreat called the Walk to Emmaus. And It was powerful. My mom had been after me, man, to go on this. And I was like, Well, tell me about it. She goes, I can't. It's a secret. And I go, it's a cult. I'm not doing it. So I just resisted, you know. She was like, No, but you need to go. It's so good. And I go, they take your watch away and they do all this. I I'm not doing it. But I did go on it. And it was transformational. And I was 33 years old. And I would say that's when I I truly, you know, they had a a little period of communion as part of that. experience and they had ⁓ it was called dying moments. And, you know, when you take that communion, I I promised God I was never gonna hide my lamp under a bushel ever again because the woman that I had married, you know, was ⁓ a non believer. She grew up in a corrupt Catholic church. Her father had been, you know, abused by a priest in the very cynical view of church. And so I was always just kind of playing it down to be to I was passive. I was just trying to You know, keep peace and ⁓ but I couldn't do that anymore. And then that's when we began to have more friction and unfortunately, you know, that was nineteen ninety-four. I was doing very well in my career, you know, almost a victim of my own success. And ⁓ I didn't want to travel more, but I had accepted a promotion to become a district manager. ⁓ I moved from Corpus Christi to Beaumont, Texas, and then, you know, was manager for the Gulf Coast. And ⁓ then they were talking about promoting me to a national position and I was like, no, I don't want to travel that much. And my kids are young. And well then our company was sold and I had stock options. And so ⁓ I they weren't they weren't vested, but when the company was sold, I had this six figure windfall and all the the stocks were vested and I just was served divorce papers out of nowhere. I was completely unexpected and which reinforced my earlier heartache, you know, about trust of women and stuff and I was like, man, that's it. I I was so angry. And ⁓ I I really prayed like Jesus in the garden, sweating literal drops of blood to take that anger away from me because the thoughts that I were having were not good. And I was going to be like ⁓ the Garth Brooks song, you know, Mom was in the graveyard and Papa's in the pen. But ⁓ so I was he he actually took that away from me one night when I was like pacing this empty apartment and I couldn't even get furniture because she'd frozen all the assets and everything and and I was like a cage tiger and I God, you've got to take this away from me. And he did. And then ⁓ I was I was gonna focus on politics and I was gonna help children, my children generationally, you know, since I didn't live with them anymore. And I was I flew up to Washington, DC and was a president's club member of the Heritage Foundation, this conservative think tank and was Doing all this stuff. And ⁓ I decided, you know what? I have to take more responsibility for why that first marriage, you know, didn't work. And and why I even married her in the first place. And I started to do a lot more work on myself. And ⁓ I was flying around. I I took a promotion to be ⁓ our North America sales manager. And I I was just working myself into exhaustion, you know, because it I didn't have any. buddy to really come home to except for the every other weekend when I got to see my kids. And I just was flying to ⁓ the East Coast and I was reading a USA Today paper and there was a a review of a book by two ⁓ college professors at the University of Michigan. I know you have some ties to Michigan and it was their last name is Cass, K A S S. And it they were watching all these kids coming into college that ⁓ didn't know how to date or court or anything. You know, they were just They wouldn't even go out together. They would just go to parties, hook up, have sex, and then disperse. And you know, they were like, Man, this is this is messed up. So they compiled a book called Wing to Wing Or to Or, Readings on Courtship and Marriage. And this review was about that book. And I said, I'm gonna buy that book. And it's it's like an encyclopedia because it it has compilations of Kierkegaard and the Bible. And so the first question is, why marry? And there might be like 15 different segments of literature. that all answer that question differently, you know, from mammals and how the other mammals behave. So ⁓ it was just very interesting and then then I kind of said, you know what? I I was made. God wired me to be married. I just didn't choose well the first time because I was passive. And then that's when I pursued ⁓ you know, I said, I I want to get married again. I want there to be a Christian woman. I don't want to put the carton for the horse, you know, in sexual ⁓ relationships 'cause then it's hard to break it off. And so ⁓ that's how I met Kim and that was in two thousand. We met and then we got married in two thousand and two and I picked up ⁓ two stepsons that unfortunately their father had never paid child support. She'd been a single mom for seven years. He was an abusive alcoholic, had to put him in jail for nonpayment child support. And then I've watched my stepsons just struggle with those same ⁓ generational sins, you know, of ⁓ substance abuse, alcohol. They're 38 and 40 now and still struggle. And for three years, one, the younger one, was in a program called Adolescence and Recovery Air. And ⁓ so we had eight different addicts that lived in our home and he lived in someone else's home. And we had like this community that we were in and they had like three strikes and then you got booted out and you'd have to go back to the community and beg for another place to live. And and I heard all these kids three meetings a week pouring out their pain about how their parents had gotten divorced and then, you know, they lost their dad when they were living with mom. Mom's looking for a new guy to come in and he doesn't care about them. And they just didn't have any way to ⁓ to process that pain. So they chose to medicate it. And I had a much deeper understanding of people with ⁓ addictive ⁓ behaviors with either alcohol or Xanax, which is a very popular substance ⁓ the kids now, because they think, well, it's safe. It's a prescription drug. So that's when my heart really softened toward ⁓ men's ministry. And and so that's been a a key aspect of my life since since really two thousand. Thank you. That's that's that that's a you've covered a lot of ground real quick. I did. And ⁓ The the key question is, now I'm I'm I'm recapping now. You you you you ⁓ you gave your heart to Jesus young. Yes. Then ⁓ through life experiences you eventually ended up rededicating your life. Yes. ⁓ in that special weekend. Yes. And in in many many biblical circles they'd say that that that was a a rededication. And some would say y you had a you had a childlike faith Then you were born again when you were at at the at that that second. Yeah, that that's when Jesus becomes saved. Sincere, deep commitment, you know. Yeah. That's it. Jesus becomes Lord and Savior then. Of children. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a big big line for people who are sitting on the curb watching is, you know, they try to got their toe in the air and get run over. So they're not ready to reach in deeper. But when you do trust God and and and reach in deeper, God meets you personally when you give him room. When you drop the wall that's it's protecting you not only from the hurt but from all the good things too, and you give the Holy Spirit chance to work in your life, beautiful things can happen because with that measure of faith that was cre you were created with, when you take that muscle of faith and you begin to exercise it, you get stronger. You get more more powerful in what you can do. You you and you build up when you when you exercise a lot, you e you eat the right foods and you take care of yourself. Spiritually, you read your Bible, you go to church, you do these things to build up the spiritual man or woman so that you can be a stronger person in your faith. And that changes you, which comes to our next chapter. Now that you are you've gone through all these amazing experiences, and I'll tell you that you've got a you've got another book on your on your on your shelf coming up. Yeah, you just t telling your story as your testimony will be a book someday. I I I'm confident. But right now You've been through all these things. How how can we take the changes that have happened in you and explain it to our our viewers and listeners to give them hope that they can that they could that if it God can do it with you and take you through all the knot holes of your life and you end up here and now you're actually doing podcasts and you've done broadcast, you know, you've been on the radio, you've done all kinds of things trying to reach people and love them. How how can we get some of that So that we'll get off the curb and get up and get busy and try again. What would you offer us? Well, I think the key thing is the the most significant victory of your entire life ironically begins with a surrender. And because my podcast and everything I talk about today is spiritual warfare. And man, it's raging. all around us like never before and it just seems like it escalates every day. But see, we're we're naked flesh. We are totally unequipped to deal with spiritual warfare. It's another realm. And so if we don't put on the full armor of God, which Ephesians talks about, we're gonna get hacked up, you know, we're we have no chance. And so the only way that you can win is to surrender and then you Tag team your way in and go, okay, Jesus, you've already won all of the battles. I'm letting you handle everything. I'm giving up control of everything. You know, and I'm a type A person. I've been extremely successful. And so I believed that I was being successful because of me and you know, my thoughts, my decisions, my discipline or whatever. And it was like, no, man, all all of it was just a gift from you. And so help me use these gifts, you know, to try to help other people. And you know, so in two thousand when Kim and I got married, you know, so first I'm I'm really focused on my two stepsons, you know, because they were thirteen and fifteen, we got married. I had a little bit of time left to try to shape them and and that was a real struggle. And then I'm also trying to ⁓ be strategic about parenting my children, you know, who ⁓ were living, you know, with their mom and she was a a non Christian. And so, you know, there was a lot that I was really kind of trying to focus on just in in my family while I had a very busy career, but Kim and I, when we got married, I was ⁓ I was real involved in the Methodist Church at the time, but that was when they were starting to basically tolerate ⁓ homosexual pastors in the pulpit, and that was against their doctrinal beliefs in the book of discipline. And I'm like, well, if we say this is what we believe, and then we don't even enforce that, well, then I'm I'm out, you know. So so we joined the Baptist church. We joined a big Baptist church, Second Baptist Church here in Houston, Texas. And then ⁓ that was some fabulous teaching under Dr. Ed Young. And so I didn't think I could be a deacon because I'd been divorced, you know, but they said, look, you know, we want you to teach this ⁓ the step family class because blending families, you know, it's about fifty percent of marriages failed today on the first marriage, but it's about eighty five percent for second marriages. Because as soon as you sniff something that even reminds you of what the problems were, you know, with the previous that you're out of there. And or vice versa. For ⁓ husbands. And so we founded this class and it was called the zoo, because ⁓ you're running around, you're having to drop kids off visitation, your kids are coming to church, but they don't go to the same high school as all the kids in that church and they don't like it. And you know, so but we really nurtured and helped one another in that class. And then, you know, I was invited to be a deacon, and I became a deacon at the church, and then I ⁓ I also became a new member counselor. And I know one of your questions ⁓ other guests is like, you what What are some of the stories? What are the things you've done? For for 16 years, you know, I walked up every Sunday at the end of the service when the invitation was given, and people thought I was the biggest sinner in the church because they're like, man, that guy doesn't get it, man. He keeps walking up every Sunday. But that's what they wanted us to do to try to draw others to come up. And so as counselors, we never knew how people were you know, what condition they were in, you know, when they decide to walk forward. Like your story that you told before we started recording. You know, you get people in all kinds of shattered conditions, vulnerable conditions, ⁓ probably like one of the most significant ones. And I'm not a pastor, you know, so I walk forward, I sit down, and God puts you, you know, with people and it's like, Lord, just give me the words, you know, and then I'm gonna take ⁓ through the steps of faith and all this. And this one gentleman, ⁓ our church had a a really big ⁓ youth program called Beach Retreat and his daughter had gone to the Beach Retreat. He was a non believer, you know, he was an engineer for an energy company. He was like, you know, I'm just ⁓ big technical, I don't believe in God and ⁓ but my daughter went to this beach retreat and she came back, man, she was just glowing. And you know, she had such a fabulous experience and she made all these friends and, you know, it was like transformational for her. And so she was invited to this other family's ⁓ ranch, you know, they're pretty affluent family and they had these four wheelers and everything and and she was killed in an accident on a four wheeler on that ranch just ⁓ a month after that. And he came forward, you know, right in the freshness of losing his daughter like that. He goes, You know, I'm not a believer, but ⁓ to honor her, I I wanna learn more about God 'cause otherwise it's just gonna swallow me. And I said, Look, let's pray about it and It's incredible how God gives you the words in those moments and you know, and I did that with hundreds of people over years and then I watched them grow in the church into their roles and some became Bible study teachers and everything. It's just so rewarding, you know, to see that and to know that you were the front porch. You were like, Hey, come on in here, you know, and ⁓ that's a very satisfying feeling and I have a real spirit for and gift really for evangelism and I'm not shy 'cause I was in sales so ⁓ That's been a tremendous experience. And then we traveled with the church. We we hosted the Chinese exchange students and we had three different years. Let me see, I made some notes here. in 2008, we went to Israel with our church. That was another transformational experience. ⁓ Dr. Young, you know, I would call my faith it was it was solid, it was a real, but it was gelatinous. But man, when I went to Israel and I walked in the footsteps of Jesus, it crystallized to like solid rock. And it was really quite an experience. I was baptized and kind of rededicated again in the Jordan River by our pastor. And then we had ⁓ communion at the garden tomb where we believed that is the tomb that Jesus ⁓ was raised from the dead. That you talk about, you know, a spiritual experience. Well then we we hosted these Chinese kids for three years and then they invited us to go to China and so we went to China, ⁓ to Chengdu, China, and met their parents and we went to ⁓ Beijing and we went to ⁓ Xi'an and saw the terracotta warriors and went to Shanghai and unbelievable experiences all through our church. And then I wanted to help start this men's ministry, and they said, you know what? ⁓ we're gonna this is a big church, seventy thousand members. We're gonna do our own. We're gonna create our own it's called like the Normandy experience because God doesn't want a Dunkirk church of retreat. He wants a Normandy church of advance. And so ⁓ we did this twelve week session and then and then we went to Normandy and we stood on the beaches, you know, Utah. In fact, up here. This sand is from Utah Beach and from Omaha Beach on Normandy, ⁓ to remember, you know, that ⁓ some gave all, you know. And ⁓ so I have just been so blessed to do so many great things and touch other people and all of that could would not have been possible if I had just stayed stuck where I was, if I hadn't made that surrender to Christ and then allowed him to use me. You know, to help others and ⁓ and I'm continuing to do that, you know, with the podcast, my book and the men's ministries, you know, that I've been involved with. One one thing that I that I hear occasionally, ⁓ when when people are c checking with me quietly, they're not saying it from in when we're in the middle of the congregation, but they'll pull you aside, they want to talk to you and they'll say, You know, your story is is pretty profound, you know, everything but a lightning bolt hit you. You know, y You know, you had a terrible life and then you met Jesus and their life changed. But I the worst thing I ever did was I said damn once. How can that be, you know, wh where where's my where's my story? And I gotta tell you that the greatest story is not the guy who's been through everything and suffered greatly and had it bad and then God receives them. That's no, I I was on the last rung of the last ladder or the last chance. So for me to reach out to Jesus was was desperation, it wasn't surrender. Surrender came in that desperation, but I didn't come forward and say, Here, take me. I came forward to run away and met Jesus there anyhow. Someone who's been raised in it, who didn't go through all that, and God prevented them from a pain and and prevented them from some of the suffering. And yeah they still went through some stuff, but they did you don't have to have been shot ten times and ended up in prison twelve times before you have a story. The story of your life is how you met Jesus, who Jesus is to you personally, how he changed your personal life in your own story, and as a result, how you're going to serve him. And finally, how is that going to affect other people around you? Because if you if you're at a y you y with the soccer stuff that's going on right now, people are going crazy. I I've never seen some people so wild and w and wound up as I'm seeing, right around me. I live in California and wow. So, but if we were that excited about Jesus, we could not contain ourselves. We would be epervesting and bubbling and and cheering and going crazy about something that lasts forever. Our problem is that in this spiritual warfare that you brought up, it that's a big deal because God created us to love Satan was Lucifer, he was the most beautiful angel. when he was excommunicated from heaven, when he was fired, because he got vain and he t tried to dis to create a a a revival of evil within heaven. ⁓ when he was kicked out, he made it his mission, his determination, his passion to take God's created things that he loved and to not kill them, but to get their eyes off of him and slowly just peel back everything good till they finally gave up. And that's where hopelessness and depression And and all the other ugly things that happen happen in our lives is because in that spiritual warfare, as the enemy gets our eyes off of the hope of God and the love of Jesus, we we lose the power to change, we lose the power for hope, we lose the power from all the important things that God had planned for us. And then we suffer because we when we're not looking at it, we begin to lose focus. You know, all of the ugly things seem overwhelming to the point where we don't know we no longer see them compared to me. But when I finally say, Jesus, I really surrender all of it to you, this stuff doesn't matter because this just washes off. When I gave my heart to Jesus, the blood that Jesus shed on the cross when he was crucified, so that I could be forgiven, washed away all that filth and all that ugly and all that pain and all that, and gave me a new start. And that's why we're here is we want a new start for you. We want you to discover what we have discovered. Whether you're like David who who started out pretty innocent and has had his moments, but comparatively, you know, he's had a good life. Or you get this David, who it took twenty years before he even found out that God's last name wasn't Dam. He was raised completely without it, and God changed me. And if God can change me through all the things that God has taken me through and given me fifty plus years of sharing the good news and changing lives, thousands and thousands of lives all over the world, he can certainly reach you where you are, the way you are, and make something beautiful out of everything you surrender to him. And David, each time we tell our story, we always invite our guest to leave us with a golden nugget. That is the piece that you that we're gonna mull on and we're gonna pray over and we're gonna meditate about her. However we process, what can we take with us? Doesn't have to be long, but just something we c we can take with us and can in and and and think about long after the podcast is done playing. What do you have for us? Well I I have been in this organization called Better Man. In its earlier iteration, it was called Men's Fraternity. And what men need are other men. And ⁓ I think that's probably the most important thing that I can kind of share is like you just can't go through life alone. And so I've facilitated this program, you know, men's fraternity, and and they had a 26-week course called The Quest for Authentic Manhood. And in that And I led that course. You you had to write a personal manhood plan. And I did that in 2005. And I have faithfully executed that plan. Well, it took a lot of discipline to stick with that for 26 weeks. And I made those other guys do it, or they didn't get to graduate and they had to write their manhood plan. And we went over it and and ⁓ you know, I'm a very disciplined person, but now they've kind of honed it and polished it and they've made it like an 11-week course. It's called Better Man. And then instead of making this long personal manhood plan that most people just won't do, it's like New Year's resolution, they have a card and it's called I think I have it, you know, here it is in my wallet. So you have this little card here, and and on the back you have your better man action steps. Just do three things. What three things are gonna be your personal manhood upgrades? And since The most important decision in your life is your life mate. Number one for me is I want to be an emotional engagement, life-giving husband for my wife. Number one. Number two, I'm going to freely share my talents and my gifts. And that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing with the podcast and everything else. Whatever I have, whatever I say, it's a nonprofit. I'm giving it away for free. I'm not trying to sell t-shirts. I'm not trying to get people to pay me to coach them or anything else. It's free. I'm just trying to help other people. And I want I want God to receive the glory. And then number three is to cultivate more men, friends, and spiritual adventures. So that's what you can get it down to. Three steps for your manhood upgrades. And that's my nuggets for you. Now if I remember right, you have a book. I do. Would you please ex explain your book to us, please? So ⁓ I wrote that because of my scouting background and I I told you I was very involved politically and ⁓ I think after the second you know, when when Obama got re-elected, you know, look, it was significant historical. The opportunity that he had to heal racial division and everything else on the first term, but then he didn't he didn't perform in a way that I thought he could have or should have and and I And then in the s in his second term that that the people voted for him again, I I I really had to reevaluate myself and say, you know what? I just don't think there's 51% of the country that thinks or believe like I do anymore. And so all of this effort and time and energy and talent and money that I've poured into the political process is foolishness. And what I need to do is be like the Jews who were receiving God's judgment, you know, and they were defeated and the temple fell, and then they were in the diaspora and they're all over in Babylon and they go, you know, maybe we gotta write this stuff down. Because in a couple of hundred years we're gonna wonder where did we go wrong? And ⁓ how did we used to do it? And so that I said, you know what? I have to start thinking about remnant living. We're going to be the remnant. We have to preserve our Christian, Judeo-Christian way of life. You know, we don't get to choose what gender we are. It's ridiculous. So maybe 50 plus percent people don't agree with me, but I said I'm going to write it down so that it will survive. And if it if a couple of hundred years, you know, someone's going, What was the Boy Scouts of America? I heard it was like the best youth organization for training young men to be r you know responsible, to be. physically strong, mentally awake, morally straight, you know, to love God and country, to help other people at all times. What a great organization. Torn down by litigation in the courts. And so I said, I'm gonna write a book about that. And it's the Savage Path. And it's because the I'm a lifelong backpacker. I was a ranger at Philmont. I guided ⁓ I I backpacked with all these guys from the energy industry. And I have a A tremendous sense of humor. And I asked Gary Thomas, who wrote a book called Sacred Marriage, who was is the writer in residence at our church. We sold a million copies. I guess I'm gonna write a book. You know, what can make it different? There's kind of men's ministry and goes, you know what? If you can add some humor in there, it would really be different. So it's got a lot of humor. It's got a lot of anecdotal, funny stories, you know, that happened and ⁓ chapter by chapter, it's just a tip of the hat to all the values The fourteen points is a scout law, you know, trustworthy, helpful, loyal, those kind of qualities. And this ⁓ this men's fraternity, you know, this manhood definition in my my household is, you know, a r a Christian man rejects passivity, accepts responsibility, leads courageously, and then lives his life for the greater reward, God's reward. And so that's what the book's about. The Savage Path, a memoir of modern masculinity. Okay. Now you got a website. The website is www.thesavagepath dot com. And ⁓ my podcast is called Wrestling with the Inner Man. And that's on Apple and Spotify. And it's I've had it for five years. There's about a hundred and fifty episodes up of just fantastic stories of wonderful people who have gone through transformational change when they made that surrender to claim that victory. David, this has been an an amazing ⁓ journey. You your life is not just a straight arrow. It's it's ⁓ over the river and through the woods. It is. Lots of different things. But God has been a present person in your life through all through from the beginning to now at the the the toward the end. And that's awesome. That's ⁓ n more people should be able to say that. I've you know I've I've run the race, I've finished the the course, and God is still God, and I'm still proud of it. And I'm glad that you are and I'm glad that you shared that with us. And ⁓ you know, folks, I get that book and read it. I you know, I I plan to read it and ⁓ I would encourage you to do the same. But ⁓ what I love I'd love to do to close these ⁓ is is pray for everyone. And then after that I have a challenge and then our podcast will conclude till the next one. It won't conclude, it'll just change chapters with another amazing guest. So let's pray. Heavenly Father, we praise you and thank you for the privilege that we have to be here together to talk about how good you are, and how you're good to us even when we don't re recognize it, and you're good to us when we begin to get a a glimpse of it. You're good to us when we fail, you're good to us when we succeed. You're you're good to us even when we take credit for the things you did. And sometimes our in our zeal, we think we did it all when ⁓ you did a lot and we just didn't give you credit. We pray, Lord, that you'll anoint what we've said and and done to bring you glory and it will touch hearts. To those that are viewing and those that are listening, that it would speak to them and encourage them to draw closer to you, regardless of the chapter of life they're in, no matter what they've gone through. If they've been struggling, Lord, let them realize that man fails, but God gives success as we trust Him to be the success in our lives. Bless them and and help them and and bless David's ministry and And use him and his family for your glory. And bless each of the viewers and listeners. Draw them closer to you through your love. Let them fall in love with you, not the buildings, not the denomination, but that personal relationship that comes from falling in love with you through Jesus Christ. God do a mighty work of love and grace in every heart. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Now the challenge is seek after God. He will be found. You want to know him better? Seek Jesus. He's the way to God. And if you do that, God will be revealed to you, and you will live your life abundantly. And your life will be a great blessing, not only to you, but to those that he allows you to touch. Seek after God. He'll be found. This has been the God Says Yes podcast with David Ebel. Connect with David, email him at Godsays Yespodcast at gmail.com. You can get his latest book, When the Doctors Say No, God Says Yes, at Amazon.com.