Ahmard Vital

David W Ebel: Welcome to the God Says Yes podcast. You are welcome. And welcome to another episode of God Says Yes. My name is David Ebel and I'm your host today. And I look forward to having this great chance from Adonai to get to know you and to share with you. The purpose of this podcast is simple. We all struggle. We all go through times where things aren't easy. But God created us to love. People goof up and people do and fail at things they try. But God never fails. He never leaves us or forsakes us. He's with us always. And today we want to talk about that. We want you to understand that God created you to love. There's not a thing you can do or say that's going to reduce or stop his love. He made you to love. You were created to love. You were created from the inside out, not the outside in. So he's got his best plan for your life. out of all his creation. We're the only ones who get to choose and we choose him. So we pray that somehow what we say or do in this next little while will speak to a heart, motivate a soul, help someone maybe put aside them all the wounds and hurts of the past and give you, the Lord God, a chance to touch our lives. So Lord, we're grateful that you're here and we're grateful my friends you're here. And I want to introduce Amad to you. ⁓ Ahmad Vitaly, if I said that right, ⁓ is a good brother in the Lord and he's a youth pastor and I'm grateful he's here and I'm going to invite him just to take the floor and introduce yourself to us brother and tell us a little bit about who you are, where you came from, where you're David, thank you for having me on, man. Grateful for our time that we've already had and for what we're about to get into today I mean, we'll keep this nice and sweet and short man. I'm from a small town in Texas called New Canaan, Texas, man And I grew up with a pen in my hand in a dream to two awesome and amazing parents Brought me up in the way of the Lord. Obviously I've had a nice little rocky road when it comes to the religious side of things I was baptized in the Baptist Church. My mom divorced remarried and we ended up going into Catholicism and I did that all the way through college and for the most part I kind of switched over and did some non-denominational things through college and then I had my prodigal living that lasted for ⁓ my goodness well over a decade and kind of just did what I wanted it was almost like I always had the Bible near me but it was quite dusty you know when it has a little outline of dust sitting there on your nightstand because it's not getting used enough that pretty much was basically high school all the way through college and even some early ⁓ years as well but somewhere along the way I had a crash out I had a relationship that went bad and then I told God during those dark nights like hey if you wake me up tomorrow we'll try something new and that's when I started getting into personal development, spiritual development. The only problem is that while I was using the Bible I was allowing other ⁓ religious practices to come into my life where at the time it seemed like it was everything that I needed. I joined a church it was more of a universalist type of church. It was based on the teachings of Jesus but it welcomed in other ⁓ religious things whether it was from the Hindu, the Buddhist or any of those others. you know, it was one of those kind of all are welcome here churches and I was there for 12 years and ⁓ And at the time again, I was in a broken place and I needed that at the time. And then this thing called COVID happened. So some of your people might know a few things that went on during that time. And during that time is when I was introduced to sort of the new gender ideology. I mean, I'm old school. I'm from a small town in Texas. I didn't know anything. I mean, outside of basically, you know, gay, lesbian and those things that we've known our whole life. I didn't know that there was something outside of that, but that was introduced to me during that time. And I was told that I needed education there, needed to affirm this, I needed to accept this. And that's when my soul started turning like, ⁓ no, we can't, we can't do this. And I ended up leaving that church. Found a Bible-believing church out here in North Houston, in the Willans, Texas. And as soon as I walked in there, just seemed like the Old Testament and Acts just came in and just dropped it on me. And I was just like, okay, these people are unapologetic, unafraid, they're teaching the Bible. and I joined the church and it ended up being great. I will say that my journey through the last church was beneficial because we know that God uses all things for the good of those who love him according to his purpose. And I was in a place where there was a man who taught me youth ministry. He taught me how to, you work with teens because I mean I've been a sports writer my whole life so I know how to work with young people I've always been working with youth in some capacity and young adults but I didn't learn the ministry and a good man his name is Royce he's gone on to be with the Lord since then and even though we were I was part of a church that you know is not following the gospel accordingly in the same way I still think that it is beneficial for the fact that it gave me the introduction of youth ministry and you know I'm a youth ministry leader now working under two youth pastors which is amazing. ⁓ Like we shared earlier I'm going on my sixth, seventh, and eighth mission trip this summer and so ⁓ my road to transformation has been a rocky one but most of ours has but I'm grateful for where I am and I think that the prodigal living I have has been so beneficial to our students because you know many a times they're you know There's some who have had different types of routes and mine has gone so far to the left direction to where coming back I'm I'm not going to say I'm more grateful but my heart is just so much more open and receptive that I've been down these dark paths for so long and done so many things to where like now when I walk into a room I'm just grateful because I'm like God brought me out of some very very tough places and it's like now I can rejoice and say I deserve none of this but you showed grace and mercy to me and I'm gonna pour that out and serve my young people in the best way possible and give everything that I can to each every one of them and most of them know that that's what I'm doing on a daily basis. Amen. So, help us understand a little more about you. You have a career. Can you tell us, catch us up on what that means? So I work in marketing for a home builder here in the state of Texas. Obviously I'm in Houston right now. So I've been the senior photographer for little over, going on 17 years now. And so I've been working in that industry for quite some time. I've been a photographer all the way back to my journalism days. So it kind of ties in with that. I'm also obviously a writer and author and a speaker and doing a lot of that work as well. I speak in colleges, high school. but now it's being part of my professional and my business practice as well. I'm enjoying seeing the fruits that God is bearing through that as well. Well, that's a good start. ⁓ Now, when you're working with young people, what are the battles they're facing today? wow. A lot of insecurity. A lot of attacks on their emotions, depression, suicide rates obviously coming out of COVID, that was a huge thing as well. ⁓ comparison, that's a very ⁓ tough thing. And just unbelief, they're being attacked on so many different sides from the standpoint of, kind of like it's all about me. mindset attitude. not sure if there's a better word to look at that words just like, know, you know, self love my feelings, my truth, my affirmation, you know, respect my feeling blank here. ⁓ And sort of the what's in it for me kind of mindset. Yeah, yeah, the complete opposite of being altruistic whatsoever and being a servant. And so I'm glad that I serve a ministry where we We we focus on love and we focus on service and not just and not love of self But love of people loving your neighbor honoring and loving your parents loving your siblings and loving those around you and Serving the needs of others more than yourself Remember we came to serve not to be served and that is the example that we like to say with that So they're fighting the world is trying to pull them into you know, staying in your own lane staying in your hole and just you know, just Dealing with life alone really trying to pull you away from community. And so we welcome our young people and with open arms when they come through that door and say, you are loved, you know, we support your parents and assisting them and loving you at the highest, at the best that we can possibly hear. And it's been bearing some good fruits. That's great. I love hearing that. young people are, is your mission at this point? Not that God can't change his direction at any moment. He's pretty smart. He knows what to do next. And he always prepares us before he sends us. So before he gives you the next job, he'll already have you ready in your heart and prepared to do it. But at this moment, the young people, that's a big deal right now because our culture, our movies, our television, everything is about me. And instant gratification. I lovingly call it the microwave love. Yeah, the delayed gratification is an uphill battle ⁓ with a lot of them and not because they don't want to it's just like you said they've been taught everything otherwise. ⁓ The microwave which was a great advancement in our society ⁓ that unfortunately with social media, with the internet, with AI and all these new things ⁓ They don't have to work the same way we did to be able to access information. I mean, we had to go with the Dewey Decimal system and we had to go into libraries and we had to go through those little cars and then go on that ladder and go up and get books and we had to read to get information. We couldn't do a Google search. We couldn't ask Siri. We didn't have, ⁓ you know, chat GPT and all of these other things. We had to go seek the information to do term papers. We had to write by hand. We had to type on typewriters. Like we couldn't just hit a button. and hit print. And so with all of these advancements in technology, while I appreciate them, it does when you take the effort. to go research and do many different things in society, it has created this, well, everything needs to happen like immediately. Delayed gratification is completely out of the door because they haven't been taught that like, hey, sometimes you gotta drop that meat, that pig in the hole and it needs to cook for eight hours, right? Whereas the way they're operating is I need all this information within 30 minutes. And so that has... that has destroyed many of the different systems that we have put in place for us to be able to learn, for us to know that like, hey, this is gonna take time. You're gonna need to build on this. It may take you three, four weeks a month, a year to be able to complete this project. There's no quick fixes to certain things. And so we have to be there in that place to be able to show them like, hey, the work must endure. Like that would be like us saying, hey, you you pray on Monday, you're good for the week. No, that's not how it works because the Bible says We pray without ceasing and we continue on and stay in steady prayer Why because the enemy is always on attack and so the attack of the minds is putting these young people in a position to think that all of this stuff is going to come quickly and easily and there's not a struggle that comes along with this but then after you read the word enough to know that like suffering is part of the Christian life that understanding that you know, you will have to to press on Despite the fact that everything is coming after you and so all of those little things is helping us to be able to get them to a heart posture to be able to endure long term and not just in the quick and short term. Well welcome back to God Says Yes. Ahmaud and I were in the middle of a wonderful conversation and the enemy of our soul decided he didn't want us to be able to talk to each other so both of our computers went crazy. And so we were not able to continue the conversation. So we put a bookmark in it. And we're coming back to finish what we started because it was too important to just let it slide. Maud, it's good to see you again. David, I'm glad you had me on. I'm looking forward to another continuation of what we started. Well, you know, the neat thing about it is that what we're talking about stuff that lasts for eternity. So, inconvenience is just that. It's an inconvenience. Nothing stopped. If anything, it makes me more determined to make this work because I'm not willing to let anyone or anything stop me from bragging on God. Absolutely agree with that, David, and looking forward to picking up right where God wants us to pick this up and move forward. ⁓ have talked and are very open and sensitive to the Holy Spirit. Let's see where he wants us to go. I know that we were in the midst of talking about how that generationally we haven't necessarily done a phenomenal job of investing in the next generation. And I know that I have grandkids who... Dad's not interested in church. and mom is searching desperately and has no idea how to find what she's looking for. So when the girls have questions, they call grandma and grandpa. And so we become the light in the middle of the darkness right now. That doesn't make us all knowledgeable, but it means we've lived around the block a few times. We've been a few things and we understand how important it is to have God in the center of your life. And so we've been investing in them. But it was interesting. ⁓ Not that long ago, one of my granddaughters turned to her mom and said, Mom, I want to go to youth group. And mom said, OK. And she said, no, no, mom, I want to I want to go and be a part of the church youth group. OK. Mom, do you understand? I'm making a commitment here. Well, that's nice for you, honey. I'm glad you're going to do it. And granddaughter just kind of went, And she went to the youth group and she asked him to pray for her mom because her mom didn't get it. And I thought that was a powerful thing to start with, that she already realizes that as good as mom wants to be, if you're in a room without the light bulb on, it's hard not to stumble around. And she wants her mom to see that light. She wants her mom to get it. Now that she's got it, she desperately wants her sister and her mom to get an aha moment of their very own. And so we become ⁓ the wealth bringers. She calls grandma when she wants to know Bible, because my grandma teaches Bible studies and ⁓ disciples women. And she calls me when she wants direction and she wants to make commitments. but she's ready to go to that next step. It's grandpa time. And there's room for both of us because, you know, God put us both together 51 years ago and we've been doing this together a long time. So it's like hand in glove for us. It's not, we could finish each other's sentences. So when one of the grandkids calls and says, I got it, I got a question. It's what's the question. I'll tell you which one of us needs to answer. But it's been rewarding because they're now developing their own interest in God. it's not... You know, one of the problems generationally has been that first generation believers like me, people who find Jesus on my own, so to speak, without parental guidance or any other influences, we become fire burners. We're charging up the hill. We're going for it. No doubt, no question, we're just gonna do it. But when we have kids and they're raised in it, some of them are generational, they inherit it. They don't have that wow moment that we had. As a result, it's a little harder for them to get excited because it's more intellectual and inherited than it is ⁓ inspirational and experiential. So I think it's really important that we encourage each generation to find their own experience, to develop their own personal relationship with Jesus. I mean, if we've been growing up in church, we've already seen the hypocrites, the fault-finders, the blamers, the judgmental ones. Man, we could probably teach a college class on that already, and we just turned it out, because they're that transparent. They don't even know they're transparent. But it's 3D. I mean, it's not hard to see the ones that aren't on fire for God. And then you see the ones that are humble and meek. Humble is not mousy. Humble is gentle. You can be humble and be bold at the same time because it's about the intent of the heart. It's not about whether you wield a big sword or not. It's about how your heart is prepared to do the battle. So when you can deceive the people who are genuine and humble and sweet and are different from all the others, that's like allergies. A moth to the flame. You know, we're drawn to that brightness of something good happening. When we look at the other and see the contrast, it's kind of like green baloney. I mean, it was probably good when it was fresh out of the pack, but once it sits around for a while, it loses some of its appetite. Wouldn't you agree? I would man and God bless you and your wife for for pouring into the grandkids. Of course, that's what that's what grandparents are supposed to do. But unfortunately, whereas we could probably say 50 years ago, it was pretty standard for grandparents to do that. But I mean, for goodness sake, she can be a grandparent and like before you're 30 now. And so that same pouring into future generations is just not as strong as it used to be. are still some out there holding it down and I'm I'm grateful for that. But there is a large gap ⁓ in the family whole that we some kind of way need to fill. I mean, we know what happened in the 50s and 60s and we know what kind of continued on through the 70s and you know, the family maker has been so I compromise would be the word. Can we use compromise? ⁓ I know it's been destroyed on many levels from the standpoint of it's just not as... seen as important as it once was. Well, look at commercials just for, just as a point of reference. You deserve a break today. No, you don't. I worked hard all day. I want some me time. Open up the Bible and show me the me time, please. Just show it to me. If you can show it to me in more than one spot, I'll pay attention. If you can only show it to me in one spot, then it means you could twist it easily. I want to you just- You know what your me time is David? You come home from work and you pull into the driveway. Whatever time from when you put park to walking through the door is your me time. That's what- That's what your me time- That's your me time. Your me time is whatever whether it's 30 seconds, 45 seconds, a minute or two. You take you a couple of deep breaths. You lock the door up. Get out and put it in the garage put it in the driveway and you get in there and guess what it's game on all over again Right because they're because we know what I don't miss does We know we know what downtime me time does first of all. Yes There needs to be some times when you can steal away. I mean you're in the shower There's some me time you're driving home. There's some me time you're in the gym. That's the meat So miss me with the I need my me time because you know, no one is just sitting there saying like, ⁓ man, dad's home. Let me just take all of the rest of his time since he's here. There is me time. It's just you have to understand what that looks like and you need to understand that there is some sacrifices that needs to be made. Meaning that if know, Junior got in trouble today, then now your me time is now cut. down because that conversation needs to happen before the sun goes down. Yeah, me time turns into we time. Well, I'm pretty sure we need to help. We need to help that young man figure out what what what just happened. Well, and I'm pretty sure when you walk down the aisle and said I do, we is now over me. So it better be if it's going to last up more than an hour. Yes, speaking to the choir, right? I totally understand that. You have to throw away your own desires. And even though I haven't jumped back into that world myself, I still now operate with the mindset that where am I going and whom can I pour into? Like there's times when it's like, I really just need to just, you know, maybe just sit down for a second or whatever, but it's like... You know, a teen, a youth, a family member is like, hey, this went on. And you're just like, okay, God wants me to put a pause in whatever I was considering doing. And now there's a new plan on the table. Why? Because I don't know what the other side of the situation that I'm going into is going to be. Meaning now it is time for me to pick up that cross. And follow into whatever I'm called to do in that moment, whether it's to to listen, whether it's to evangelize to, whether it's to outreach or whether it's just to shut up and let someone just get out whatever nonsense, whatever garbage is in them that needs to come out. Right. Sometimes people just need to cry with them. Yes. Come here. There's sometimes when. There's times when my youth will come up to me and they're walking in and they got the puppy dog eyes and they just want to come in and just lay next to me and just sit there and be held and hugged and not a single word is being spoken. What's going on? Sometimes I still don't know what's going on, but when they walk away, they wipe their tears and they're back into the game of life. And when they're ready, and when they're ready, then they will share with you how you help them win the battle. Yes, and you know what, Because God prepared you, God prepared you before they even realized it. Correct, and they may not tell you for a week what happened last Wednesday. Yep. Because it just wasn't the time for any of that. The time was to be present in the moment. ⁓ When things are needed and I will say over the years I've got a lot more discernment to that where it's just like okay, you know someone comes up to you with a situation and it's just like okay, can we establish some ground rules? Like yes, okay. Do you want a solution or you just want to be heard? And then from there, just like, know, sometimes they just need to get it out and they need to hear themselves in the revelation of come to them through God putting it in them like, ⁓ I just need to just get this out of me. Now I don't need it anymore. So thank you for listening. But then sometimes they're like, I'm at a crossroads. I'm in a dilemma. And then you listen, let it be out and say, okay, now I will respond. And here's what I think is the best course for this situation. A have you prayed about it? Have you prayed about it? Because if you haven't, we're going to do that. Then we'll get to yes before we get to the practicality before we get to the logistics before we get to the strategy first thing and foremost is we're going to take it to he who already died for the very moment for us to be able to talk and have this conversation in the first place we're going to do that first right because us and our little small you know dots of brains are not prepared and ready to deal with most of these situations without calling forth him first to come into the conversation That's real deal. And so I just think we need, I think we need more of that, David, and just, yeah, we need to have the understanding and the discernment to know what is needed and really just, man, get out of this thing, this idea about, like you said, me, me, me, just what, what am I getting out of this? I call it Microsoft, microwave love. You get 30 seconds and bing. You want everything instantly. and a channel changer with 137 channels on it is not helping the focus at all. No, nor does computers that we have in our pockets either. That's one of the worst things, which is what, that is one thing I love about when we do missions. ⁓ We tell the parents before they leave, like, once we're off the road and we wake up every morning, those phones go in the basket. Our students get maybe, 30 minutes to an hour to check in with home, make sure everyone's well. One of the leaders usually is either the youth pastors or someone assigned who's of, ⁓ you know, of leadership. There's one phone parents can reach out to in case they really need to get a message out to them. But you know, was interesting, David, you know, it was interesting, David, from what I gather. And I'm not obviously in charge of that. I don't think a lot of parents are calling through that whole week. Like there's not a lot of, we need to get in touch with Junior like right now. I don't recall too many of those calls. No. Which means that God is already taking care of all of these things. The parents are like, hey, you go out there and go and share the good news. We're gonna take care of things back here. There's nothing going on back here that you need to know about right now. Now when they have their little 30 minute calls and they can call and check back in. Maybe they get all that in there, but I can tell you right now when we're in the middle of VBS when we're in the middle of evangelism when we're doing outreach when we're doing street ministry I kid you not for the most part No one is concerned about what's going on somewhere else because we're here, we're in California, we're in Missouri, we're in Utah, we're in whatever, and we are in and focused on this. And they follow the lead of the pastors up down to the leaders, and then your student leaders, and then all the students who come along. Well, see, accountability is a chain of command. one of our cultural problems right now is we're ready to blame, not ready to own. We're ready to be accountable, hold you accountable, but not be accountable. Hmm preach that preach that I am You know I tell my guys who who come to me and say hey, man I'm ready to step up in leadership, and I was like okay, so this is what you're preparing for ⁓ You look to lead a group of young men You know who are younger than you and you show them the example you tell them you show them what needs to be done Teach them how it needs to be done, and then you trust that they'll do it when everything goes well Everything everything hits like it's supposed to you give credit to every single one of those young men who helped you out I said, but if one thing goes wrong if one big small minor whatever goes wrong You own it and when you go to the people who hired you to do this your pastors or whomever is leadership over you You said hey, this didn't go that way. It's on me I'm gonna look to resolve it and I'll let you know when it's when it's completed and it's done and it's That's what that's what that's what leadership is Leadership is you put your ego, you put your skill, you put everything at the door and serve others and you give all praise out and accept all responsibility. ⁓ Affirmation is part of the investment. You've got to affirm those as they're growing, as they're stretching, as they're trying. You've got to do that. You've got to invest in them as God invests in you. But on the other side of it, part of your maturation, your growing up, is owning it. Because if you own it just when it's easy, you can't get anything out of that. It's really a battle when it hurts. It's not a battle when it's a bless me. And you know, sometimes when things do go awry and you own it and you have that time to sit with yourself, ⁓ Man, there's so much good that can come from that. There's so much growth. I'm actually kind of faced with one of those right now with some situations that's going on over there and we're trying to navigate and put the pieces back together. And I just was like, you know what? It's on me. You tell me what we need to restore all of this and bring it back to where we are back, leveled out, I'll do it. And they was like, well, let us do this, do that. I'm just like, no. Let me just own it. Then we can move on to do new things. Right? I don't want us to, to, to, keep harboring over what's already happened, what's already done. Even though I have no said it's not going to fix nothing. No, let me, let me go ahead and just take this full burden, all of it, right? Not a piece of it, not half of it, not a third of it. I'll go ahead and take all of it. And at right time and due season, When this all comes back full circle, we'll look back at this and say, this was the right decision to do. Because I just don't want to continue talking about what the broken vase is already doing. What I'm going to do is either I'm going to patch the vase back up, or I'm going to buy a new vase. And then we're going to put it back over in its spot. It's going to take care of its functionality. And we're going to move on with our next course of business. And by doing that, now we can move on to greater things. what I believe always is going to happen is God is going to restore everything that we lost or what we think is broken anyway, right? Because we put our faith and our trust in him first. One of the things that is so true as you're saying that is I listen to people and I don't care of the age group so much anymore is we have become really good at compromise. too good. And the idea that we're, you know, well, they didn't mean it. It's okay. We'll make it work. But how are they going to grow from that? How are they going to ever get to the point where they're ready to step up and do more? If soon as things get hard, we justify for them, we rationalize for them, we, we wrap them in bubble wrap and, and, try to protect them from what's really going on. You know, in a business, if If with the business you work in, if something goes sideways, your boss doesn't come in and say, let me talk to your mother. He sits you down and says, need to talk. Here's what I see, what do you see, what do we do? And really, that's what needs to happen in a home, in a job, in a relationship, in every relationship. And that doesn't mean black and white harshness. But we're not being kind by excusing people when they need to own it. We're not helping them grow. We're, we're, we're, how do you say it? You put salt in a wound and see if it hurts. You know, if it's a, if it's a wound, you go to the doctor and he says, that's an infection. We got to get rid of that. First thing most people say is no, no, no, no, no, no. Just put some salve on it. I'll be fine. Have the doctor say, no, but that's cancer. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want so salve. I want you to do something. Our problem spiritually for many of us is we deny it until it's a cancer. Until it becomes a crisis, we can rationalize, justify, wheedle, finagle, somehow we'll find a way around it, because we don't want to own it. We don't want to deal with it. It's uncomfortable. It's embarrassing. It's humiliating. And a bunch of other adjectives I can't think of right now, but still mean just as much. We have to get to a place where we go, God, you are smart. And I know I'm not. And I trust you because I realize On my own, I'm going to crash and burn again. I've got so much road rash, you're barely healing what I've got. I don't need any more. How do I own this so you can help me grow past this? Realizing that as soon as you grow past it, someone behind you is going to come up and say, I'm in a crisis. And you're going to be able to say, oh, God just brought me through that in your head. And though you may not say to them, let me tell you what happened in the last six weeks. You're going to be able to know what to do because God prepared you before they needed you so that the love of God can flow through you to the crisis of the moment for that person. And what's an inconvenience to one is an absolute drop dead crisis to somebody else. because we all measure with a different measuring stick. ⁓ man. And the name of that sermon is what rules your life. It's good. It's good. And you kind of struck a nerve with me about a third, two thirds of the way through that. And I'm starting to notice this on Sunday morning. I'm part of the prayer team over at the church at the nine o'clock service. And some days, you you just come in and you're just like, weekend hasn't been that awesome. you Saturday didn't go quite well, maybe you overslept. I mean, it's just, you know, the stuff, just stuff that just compounds and it's like, it gets you down a little bit. And sometimes I'll come in and I'll just be like, all right, Lord, I'm showing up. I don't feel 100, but you make her way. And what I've learned over time is when you walk in with a heart to serve, which I've embodied well, a lot more in the last ⁓ few years of just falling in love with serving. It's amazing when you when you're there and you're you feel like you're in the you know, you feel like you're in the gutter and you feel like you're in the trenches and you feel like you're in the valley and don't even have a flashlight or a match When you when you intercede on behalf of others and they bring you know their Issues to you In real time and my goodness ⁓ And they bring those issues to you and you and you and you you agree and take it to the Lord with them. It's I can tell you there's been so many times when I've walked away and was just like, wow, what was I? What was I complaining about earlier? What what what issue did I have? You completely forgot even what you were mad or upset or just not feeling so well. And it's just like, OK. This is what the good Lord talks about when it says take on others burdens. Take on those burdens and be there with them through that and pray for one another as I prayed for you. Right? And it's just a beautiful thing when you really do step outside of yourself and say, no, this is about him, not about me. And he told me to love him first. And then love my neighbor as myself top two. ⁓ wow. So this never, well, you're thinking like, okay, when do I come into this? ⁓ you don't. Yeah. How about never? ⁓ you don't, you don't. I'm taking care of you. I'm asking you to go tend to my sheep, to go feed my flock, to go take care of the others because If I'll take care of the birds, I'll take care of the animals, if I'll take care of the flowers, if I'll take care of all these other things, what do you think your Father in Heaven is going to do for you? He said all these things. We've read all these things. We learned it in Sunday school. We learned it as young adults. We've learned it as adults. it's just like somewhere along the way we're just like, yeah, but what about... Yeah, but there's a series of words written. that probably should be surgically removed from most everybody's vocabulary. Or what about? Well, that's next. Yeah, that's the one right next to it. What? And so I the third one would be, I believe. Or the worst would is like, you know, when it comes from the pulpit, the Lord told me and it's like, did he? Did he really? Did he really? Yeah. the nice thing about when the Lord tells you, does it glorify the Lord? Does it unify the body? Does it line up with God's Word? And in the scope of eternity, will it make a difference? If you can't get it through those four filters, I'm, as far as I'm concerned, it's chopped liver. Rotten top liver. Yeah, it means something to somebody, but it doesn't mean nothing to what you're, what God's saying. And those four filters, God's been using, I've been using those four filters for 50 years with people. and it's worked every single time. I've seen three different church splits unsplit over those four questions. Somebody's gotta call it, man. Somebody's, we have to get to the point where we stand and say like, I mean, when God called out, it was like, who told you that? Like, we gotta go back to the original. Like, who spoke those words to you? Who gave you this revelay? Where did this come from? Well, that woman you gave me, it's her fault. That's the problem. Even then we were justifying and rationalizing and blaming instead of owning and surrendering and admitting. ⁓ I think that's why my father used to say that there's nothing new out here. Nothing. It's like when you just say that it's like we fell apart from the jump. I created all this beautiful stuff and then like boom here it is. I got a quick story for you. ⁓ story is told about a pastor who was on a really, really tight budget and he got a guy that just came out of jail and he needed to do some community service. The pastor said, well, I've got 10 gallons of paint. I've got this pretty little white chapel. I want you to put three coats on and make it beautiful. So it'll last. Well, the guy was doing a good job till he tripped on one of the cans and spilt it. He didn't want to disappoint. He didn't know what to do, so he added water to the paint. And it would look really great until it rained and then it started getting thinner and weaker in spots. And then finally in the middle of all of it, words started showing up as if we paint, repaint you thinner and thin no more. When we try to do it on our own and we try to justify, rationalize, it may sound cute when you say it, but the guy when he came out of jail trying to do right should have just gone to the pastor and said, pastor, screwed up. I made a mistake. I dripped on a can of paint. How do I fix this? He didn't. So he did what logically seemed like the right thing to do. That gets me in more trouble than anything is logically. I can, I have reasons to repent all the time for logically because that my mind runs that way naturally, not supernaturally, but naturally. And so I have to keep, have to grab myself by my own collar and say, okay, that's enough. Let's take this to the cross right now. I need to pray over this because obviously I'm in my own way. That's why I'm tripping over things. But if I, if I'm, if God wants to get my attention and he's done everything else, it's not beyond him to rain on that building and show you where your failure is. Not because the paint is a big deal. It's the intent of your heart. That's the big deal. And if you're willing to fake it, then you already are compromising and sliding further and further from your promise. And if God is not on the throne, who is? Excuse me, Jesus, let me kick you off the throne. I gotta get this one settled. ⁓ man, that's ⁓ That's deep. Story was deep. References are deep, but it's so true. Because anyone who's been alive more than five minutes and has gone through a number of things can be like, there's so many times when I was just like, you how do I get out of this? And we're looking everywhere else except our knees into the word. We go through all these other things. And this is why I've been sharing with a lot of people who maybe aren't ⁓ part of a church or not part of a community of believers. I'm like, when you're active in a church, a church that's serving, a church that teaches the Bible and not trying to teach some other, you know. sociological, political or some other, some other, you know, hangout spot of just, you know, who's got the cutest dress on and who's got the, you know, most expensive, uh, as the kids say fit going. When you have a, we have a group of believers and people who love the Lord and serve. Do you realize we could eliminate all social programs if, if church attendance went up like 25 % across the country? We would not need one single social service of any kind, whether it's welfare, whether it's housing, whether it's ⁓ healthcare. I don't care what it is. If church attendance and people who are on these services and the church grew and got more biblical, more serving, more worship, more evangelism, more outreach, more missions. And I put 25 % because all we need is a tipping point, right? We don't need 80 % of people to be in a church. No, but if our numbers in the American church, or let me say just in the Western world, let's just start with the Western world. America, the West, We know what that, we know what that entails. If church attendance went up 25%, we're talking about biblical, we're talking about Bible based churches, attendance went up 25%. We could cut down on all social services. We could take a huge chunk out of that. Because when you have a community, you're not going to the government to get welfare and food stamps because the church will feed you, right? You don't need to go to the HUD department to go get housing. The church will have places where you can rest your head. Maybe not full time, but it's like, okay, you're in a rough patch right now, stay with us for three months. Six months, whatever. And while you're doing that, we're gonna help you get. back into the workforce. We're going to help you feed your children. We're going to help you with daycare. We're going to help you with all of your bills and expenses. And then we're going to teach you how to fish. So now that you can go out there and do it for yourself and what we're going to do is because we're a community now when you get on your feet and go get that apartment, go get that home. Now you see the version of you who was in that spot before and now you're part of a body of believers and we're going to go out there and do that again with somebody else because they're in your spot from a time ago and now we now have a full functioning community-based Bible-based church. Tell me if that's not a solution to at least 80 % of our problems in this country right now. Please tell me that. agree. ⁓ Interesting piece of little bit of history. ⁓ William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army, when he was trying to get the ministry work of dealing with the poor going, he wrote a book called, In Darkest England and the Way Out. And its purpose was to show the church of that area, that if they would take the people off the streets, put them into farms, teach them how to farm, teach them how to sew clothes, teach them how to become surviving instead of, and thriving instead of just living under bridges, what could happen? And it exploded in growth. to this day, that's still a very, very, very popular book that people, when they want to go into church history and see how did churches grow, they go and get that book because it is that deep. And I mean, the illustrations are definitely 1860s. But the truth is the truth. You know, when I discovered that book, I was already in ministry for 25 years. ⁓ And when I found it, it was like, where have you been all my life? Why did it take this long for me to find? Because what it was saying is what I believed in when I was living. But I finally had someone who'd said it first and wrote it first. His original batch of the books is how he funded the Salvation Army as it started. So there's a little piece of trivia that you can take home with you, share with family, friends, church members, anybody else. And for the people who've been in church and really got a bad taste in their mouth, let me remind you that God didn't goof it up. The people who goofed it up are the ones who didn't want to figure out what God wanted. They wanted to do what they wanted. Small g and their God. I, I, me, me, me, I. And the problem is that there's no I in God. So if there's an eye in it, there's a problem because God didn't put it there. No wonder we crash and burn with it. Yeah, I just want us to get back to basics. I really do. Just the foundation of what we know to be true. just what does the word say? And I know you have your four criterias and I'm all for that. But at the very root, you really want to hear what needs to be said, The word, the inspired word of God is the foundation of knowing exactly what you You gotta start there. And then you spend time with him. Seek him. He's always there. We're the ones who pull away. He is always there. He has never changed. He's the same. He's the same. He has the same love. has all that. He's just he's he's everything we need. But we're trying to either put him in a box or we're trying to like, you know, make him our homeboy. We're trying to just put him in these different categories. It's like he's everything. He's the healer. He's the provider. He's our savior. He's he's he's he's the all in all like. And funny because we just had our youth group last night and one of our guys was teaching and he was just like, there's so many things that we fully don't understand about God. He's like, but if we could understand him, he wouldn't be God. If we could pinpoint everything, like no, he's above and beyond anything we can ever comprehend. That's kind of the point. Like he's all encompassing and yes, some of the stuff about him, we're just like, now how in the world, you know? He spoke let there be light in there was Please David in your own way break down what that actually means look logically. I'll be here all night Seriously not as smart we are not I Don't smart the right word that's too that's good word. Yeah, but you we know that we agree on the point ⁓ Sure for sure and he's he's he's all everything and we are and we are so much less We were made in his image, but we're not him For sure and you need to be in a church that echoes what you just said And there are churches out there doing that and doing it well it is and and and and and like you said for the people who have been church hurt you It may take you some time but but you need but you do need to find the church where They're focused on the word. They're focused on the word. They're not focused on things of the world other than to be the counter to things of the world. Calling you to be salt and light in the world, right? Not of the world. You're in it, not of it. Right? And that's the battle, right? When they start talking about too many worldly things and too many, you know, things that are not biblical, but are more just societal. not saying that's a red flag, I'm just saying keep your discernment meter open. When you go in the garden, not everything that's green is a piece of fruit, some of it's weeds. And we've got to be open with our spiritual eyes to be able to discern what is produce producing and what is choking. And the things of this world will choke out the healthy things. because they're anti-God. Before we call this the end of this discussion, because there'll be more. You and I both know that. There'll be more. But ⁓ at this point, I learned something in Cook County Jail, teaching a Bible study for guys that are on their way to the electric chair. I led these guys to the Lord. After five and a half years in the ghetto of Detroit, I wasn't scared of nothing. I figured if God hadn't allowed me to get killed by now, I was fine. So I was just letting the angels run amok and do what they needed to protect me, and I was just going and preaching. so one day after the Bible study, I said, guys, I need ⁓ some clarification here. And I said, We had some preachers in here and they got very upset because I put my foot down and said that the guy that kept standing up and sitting down, standing up and sitting down was interfering with service. And I told him to sit down and behave because he didn't have to respect me, but he had to respect God's word. And then until God's word is done being preached, he can sit. And those preachers literally dragged me out of the building and chewed me apart over it for fear that I would have caused their murders. So I went to the guys and said, guys, I'm just being transparent before you. Did I screw up? Did I mess up? Did I fail? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're the only real preacher in this building. We got some religious people, but you're the only one who's preaching the word of God and living the word of God. No one's gonna touch you. We know that without Jesus, we're going to hell. Because of Jesus, even if we admit to our murders and they put us in the chair, we go to heaven. So, you know, I would die for you. Jesus died for me, I would die for you. No one's touching you. And I said, so give me simple words for this. In case somebody asked me how do I explain it, he said it's this way. And I'm going to be a little more colorful just because this is what he said. He said if you pick your nose all the time, you do it all the time, you're religious nose picker. It does not mean you're doing it right. It just means you do it all the time. Do it all the time. Do it all the time. That makes you religious. Showing up in a building doesn't make you ⁓ a believer. It proves you're religious person who shows up all the time. Shows up all the time. But it doesn't mean your heart has changed. You can walk in a garage, but it doesn't make you a car. Showing up in a church doesn't make you a believer. being religious is not the answer. If it was, none of us would be here. What the answer is, we just figured out ourselves that God never changes, God never moves. He loved us before we made all our failures and He loves us even now that we've made all our failures. And we can't get rid of His love, He just loves us. So we need to stop being religious and trust God. So good. So good. And that's meaty, isn't it? I mean, that's... And you're doing that, and you're doing that within the confines of the prison. And just sharing those types of words, it's bold. That's bold. And there's a lot of people seeking something. I recently, I wouldn't say recently, I'd say within the past couple of months. There was a gentleman who came up to me and he said, you know, I'm having a rough time right now. My mother, I think she's on her deathbed. And I'm just like, really? He's like, yeah, you know, I don't know if I'm going to be at class in the next couple of weeks. And I said, well, come see me after class. I got a word for you, right? I'm in a gym, so you can, I'm not bringing the Bible in and sitting on top of my workout equipment, but the word comes with me. And so I get with him after class and he's like, Hey, you want to see me? I was like, yeah. I was like, you know about your mother. I was like, you know, I'd like to share a word with you. And he's like, is it motivational or is it something religious? And I was like, well, it'll be a prayer. I want to pray for you. He's like, well, if it's, if it's, if it's something religious, I don't want, I don't want any of that. And I'll just like, okay. I was like, but I said, do know this. Um, My heart goes out to you and your mother. I'm going to pray for you even if you don't pray with me. I'm going to pray for you and I'm going to pray for your family. I'm going to pray for your mother. That's what I'm going to do. Now, if you're here just because you're not here with me doesn't mean I'm going to pray for you. And he sat there for a second and he paused for a good five, seven seconds. And he said, I've been around a lot of Christians my entire life. And he's like, no one has ever responded to me like that. I was like, we're called to love. can't force the gospel on you. I was like, but me as a believer, you not wanting it for me doesn't change the fact that I still take your story and I will still intercede on your behalf and I will still pray for your family, even though you may not accept it. That means I'm going to love you right where you are and your family as you are. because that's what I choose to do. And he walked away, David. I'm not saying the spirit was working on him. All I can tell you is that he walked away quite conflicted and not like he didn't even know how to respond because I was just being me and saying, Hey man, you support my class. You've been coming through here for years. I love you. And you, you brought a situation to me and me as a Christ follower. This is my response. Regardless of what your response back is to me. I'm gonna love you just as you are Amen, and there's nothing you can do it like you say there's nothing you can do about it and Nope. Yeah We could do this for another two hours and not even be done This is this is awesome. I'm so grateful that we're doing we're sharing this and ⁓ I think what we need to do is we need to invite you to share us another golden nugget, something we can take with us to chew on, something that you want people to think about even when this podcast is over. And we will invite people to email us. Let us know if they have questions. GodSaysYesPodcast at gmail.com is the email address to send it to. GodSaysYes at gmail.com. GodSaysYesPodcast at gmail.com. If you email to that, I will address it here on the program. If you want me to address it with you and interview you, the person who's asking the question, I'll call you and talk to you. And if it'll work, I'll bring you on the program. If it's better that you just ask me and I address it without you, then we'll do that. If you prefer to be a secret agent, I'll still answer the question. But I'm not going to back down on it. If you want my help, I'll help you. And I think that's what I'm saying here is between Ahmad and myself, we would be honored to address any of your concerns, any burdens you have, anything going on in your life. If there's something you want talked about on this program, ⁓ email me. Let me know because I guarantee you I can't read my own mind much less anybody else's. So if you want us to know, you're going to have to tell us. But if you want the help, ask. If you don't want the help, you can write and I don't want the advice, but here's what I'm thinking. And I'll receive that. Because sometimes we're in war with ourselves. And until we get past that, we're stuck. and no one can reach inside your head and do it for you. So I still love you with the love of God, regardless of how you respond, because you are important to God, therefore you're important to me. So as we get ready to close this chapter of more chapters to come, what would you think would be the nugget that God would love us to hear as we get ready to close? I've been sitting here thinking about, I've been listening to you and I'm just like, okay, you know, speak to me while my brother's to the audience right now. multiple things came to my mind, but I think right now the word that came on my heart is forgiveness. It's forgiveness. for anyone listening right now. There is, and let's keep it simple. I want you to think about the one. Not, you know, all of Uncle Joe's kids. I want you to focus on the one. There's that one person in your life whom you've avoided many, many, many years who maybe has done something heinous to you, maybe has spoken out of turn. maybe has disrespected you or maybe just did what we said just did something bad. What I want you to do today is I want you to find out their contact and I want you to call them. I want you to text, want you to email, I want you to call them. and I want you to open the conversation. with a heart this open a heart posture that is open and I want you to forgive them within the first 30 seconds of the phone call That's what I want someone out there. I don't know who needs to hear this, but I know somebody does need to hear this. Amen. To forgive them. And I'm talking about not like, let's just put this in the past. No, I'm talking about wiping the slate clean. Forgiveness. Right. As you would build on. You have held on to this burden for so long, your heart is heavy over it, you cannot move on and move forward in life until you fully forgive somebody who has done wrong to you. Right? And you know why you're supposed to do this? For one, your heavenly father told you to do this and he gave everything for you to forgive your family, your neighbor, or whomever is the person in your life. who has in your mind wronged you. It's time to let that go. It's time to look that person in the face, speak directly to them and tell them that you forgive them and that you will love them with the same loving heart that the good Lord has given you. Because you know what? We are all flawed, we have all sinned and we have all fallen short of the glory. What we are called to do is to be what He has called for us to be, which is to forgive those who have done things unto us. That way your Father in heaven can forgive you for the mountain of things that you have done. Remember, remove the plank from your own eye before you deal with the speck in someone else's. And so take this word, sit with it, pray on it. and go out and do what is the right thing in forgiving that person who weighs heavy on your heart and has been going on for many years now. Amen. People don't realize that when we hold grudges, it creates a spiritual infection. It festers. And anybody who's ever got a splinter in their finger, somehow that splinter makes the whole finger feel like it's bigger than your thumb. You can't seem to stop bumping that splinter. When we hold grudges, when we are unforgiving, that's in the way of anything else that God had planned for you. And the only way to do it is as you forgive them, God can deliver you. You don't forgive them so they're forgiven. You forgive them so you can move on. You forgive them so there's a fresh chance at whatever next is God had planned. Because as long as you're holding the grudge, as long as you're dealing with the infection, as long as you're finding the blame, you can't be free. And if you've been in bondage long enough, if you're miserable already, nobody wants to have someone to put iodine on the open wound. Nobody ever says, please pour some more alcohol in that. But the healing happens when the wound is purged. and blood of Jesus Christ is what washes away the sin and sets us free. So that's a powerful statement and I'm glad you brought it up. It's something I teach people all the time because I hear it all the time. So it's time for us to pray and close our time together till next time. And I hope there is a next time and we don't wait months and months because there's a lot more to say. And I've enjoyed this tremendously. Definitely. Can I throw in one last thing before you pray? it. In addition to forgiving them, for those who are listening, I want you to apologize to them as well. I want you to apologize to that person as well. And you might be like, why? I did nothing wrong. You were present for the situation. And there's a freeing aspect in apologizing when you may not fully think that you were wrong for something. But it's a two way thing. They did something to you. Something happened on your end. But when you get ahead of things, when your heart is out there, when your heart posture is like, okay, hey, I want to apologize for just being involved in this turmoil, whatever it is. I don't care who was at fault. You step ahead of this and apologize and forgive. It's one of the most freeing things that you could ever do in your life because now because now you're not now you're reaching the heart posture. You're reaching a Christ almost a Christ level heart posture and just saying not only father forgive them for they know not what they're doing father forgive me because I don't know what I'm doing either. but you lay it all out there and say, forgive you and I apologize for ever being part of such catastrophes that we're dealing with. And you watch how God moves in your life when you do those two things with that person. Amen. It's time to pray. Heavenly Father, we are grateful for this chance that we've had to meet together with our listeners and viewers. We're grateful that your love has been shared. And everything that we've said and done in all of this program has been about the love of God. Healing, setting free, restoring, renewing, rebuilding, re-inspiring, helping us to become more like God as God is more powerfully involved in us. God, break down the walls that we've built ourselves. Show us how much you love us. Reveal through your Holy Spirit the powerful things you always had planned. Bless every listener and and bless Amad and his family and his church and Lord use my wife and I as well to the glory of God in Jesus name. Together we say amen. Thank you so much for being here and until next time keep looking for the answer keep looking ahead. This has been the God Says Yes podcast with David Ebel. To connect with David, email him at godsaysyespodcast.gmail.com. You can get his latest book, When the Doctors Say No, God Says Yes, at amazon.com.