Healey Ikerd

David W Ebel: Welcome to the God Says Yes Podcast. You are welcome here. Welcome everybody to another episode of God Says Yes. My name is David Ebel and I've been in ministry for over 50 years. My whole purpose in ministry is to love people. I'm of the opinion that God created us one at a time, custom made, so that He could love us just the way we are. We don't look the same on the outside, but that doesn't mean we're not the same on the inside, because we were created in His image. And he wants us to know that in spite of people, in spite of situations, whether we've been disappointed, disillusioned, or anything else that's caused us to become depressed, or even to the point where we don't even want to try anymore, you still are there. You never stopped. Sometimes we get church hurt. People in church really need to be in church because they're not where they need to be. And hopefully the church should be the emergency room of the body of Christ. But sometimes that means people don't act right. But that doesn't mean God. doesn't act right. God always created you to love and will always love you in spite of them usually, but he always loves us. So today, this is a day to encourage you. We hope you'll listen, that you'll get something out of it. This is Healy. Healy is a wonderful sister in the Lord and she's done a bunch of wonderful things. But rather than me give you her resume, let me introduce you to her. Let her introduce herself. ⁓ We've got a couple of questions. We're just going to talk for a while, just have conversation. So, Healy, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. Can you tell us a little about yourself so we you're no longer a stranger? You become a friend? Sure. Well, Like you said, my name is Healy. am a licensed counselor and a licensed marriage and family therapist here in the state of Arkansas. I have written a couple of books and a couple of children's books. And I work a lot with people that are dealing with anxiety. I'm a U.S. Army veteran and I'm a grandma and a wife and ⁓ have a little farm with goats and chickens. Thank you for your service, by the way. Thank you. among the many things that I had the privilege of doing, even though being disabled from birth, I ended up being a chaplain for the Marine Base for four years. Nice. So for a guy that they wouldn't even take for Vietnam, God has a wonderful sense of humor. We get to love people where they're at, even when we don't even know it's coming. it was a privilege. of doing that. Yeah. He will defy odds and he'll get you where he wants you to be and all that other stuff doesn't matter. And I'm grateful because I'd have no job, no life if there wasn't for him and his divine appointments. Healy, I usually like to invite our guests to explain a little bit who they were. you know, that listeners and viewers will be able to identify that, you know, they, want, life wasn't always perfect. And then how they found their faith in God and what it's done for them. And as a result, what you've been able to do with God working through you. Can you tell us a little about yourself, please? Yeah, I grew up in Oklahoma and I came to know well I was kind of raised You know praying to Jesus knowing who he was but gave my life to him at a vacation Bible school one year and Was very excited about that Because that is when they talk about the joy of our salvation That is it is make when you understand it. It makes you a very happy person but Yeah, but I had a lot of ⁓ struggles though after that just growing up and just different kinds of things and in family and at school and stuff it was really hard and by the time I got to ⁓ high school it was like the summer before my senior year my parents divorced and ⁓ I really didn't have a lot of skills to be able to cope ⁓ especially I was not grounded in God's Word I did go to church every week but didn't really know the importance of reading the Bible. And so I kind of went through that whole period just of really struggling trying to figure out how to cope with this because it was devastating to me. And went through a few years to join the military and went to college, active duty after college, ⁓ ended up getting pregnant and had a little boy. a few years after, well, about a year after he was born, I was in a Bible study. the gentleman that was teaching shared a scripture. We were going through the book of Romans and you know, that's a powerful book to walk through. One of my favorites. Yeah. And ⁓ God just really spoke to me ⁓ and said, Haley, you need to choose me or the world. And I'm like, what? I really had. I really, you know, because I felt like I'd love the Lord and but my life was looking very worldly just because I wasn't grounded in anything. I had no real biblical knowledge. And of course I said yes. And ⁓ he just began to show me all the ways that I had compromised in my life, like trying to fit in with the world and doing the things to cope that weren't really helpful. And that just changed my life that day. I stopped cussing. I just you know didn't lie. I just started changing all the things that I was doing to make my life more pleasing to God. God loved me. He was pleased with me, but he wanted me to be obedient to him and to read his word and that was one thing I did. I started reading the Bible. I got into more Bible studies and just ended up reading the word all the way through and I was was amazed because I thought I had learned all these stories in you know Sunday school when I was little but wow they were packed with a lot more than you know just Noah bringing animals to the ark like stories a little deeper than that or you know Joseph with the coat of many colors like the words deeper than just those stories I had learned in Sunday school and Just reading the word transformed my life and so it ⁓ Just made me love him even more and know him like I had never known him before And when you did it changed everything It definitely changed everything it was funny from ⁓ because where I was stationed at the time, people had known me one way one day, and then I was very much transformed. And then the people that knew me after, they just saw me as this new person. They had no idea that two months before, I was all compromised. And so it was interesting just to see how. people like I guess expect a certain you to be a certain way. ⁓ and they have a hard time imagining that you had this ragged old past. So it's interesting. yeah, that I know my past and I remember it very much. ⁓ it is one thing that I don't let the enemy use it against me anymore, but I use it and keep it ⁓ for my own humility so that I will stay humble and know ⁓ I'm just a poor old sinner that God saved? Well, our past is our history book. It's there so that we don't have to go back and revisit it. It's documented, but it's also forgiven. And the fact that if God forgives us, He expects us to forgive ourselves and to get close enough to Him that we can accept His forgiveness and live like it. When I gave my life to Christ, I had been I did not even know that God's last name was a damn. ⁓ so I had fallen, I had gone from the librarian of the school all the way to the reprobate of the neighborhood. And ⁓ I just, I'd lost my compass. What little I knew I did. I was in self-destruct fully. ⁓ I went, you know, ⁓ when I gave my life to Christ, it was such a profound difference. that two days later when I went back to work, the people were saying, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? And it wasn't long before that I went to see some of my friends and they walked me to the parking lot. They didn't even want me in their houses because I was so different. And I lost everything that I thought was important to discover that everything I thought was so important really wasn't that important. that for everything that changed, I'm a much richer person, for the people he placed in my path, for the opportunities he's given me to live, for the opportunities to love people that sometimes seem unlovable, usually that's their defense mechanism because they don't think, they've already condemned themselves to being unlovable, so now they're just living it out. But when they discover that God loves them, and God always loved them, they begin to look in the mirror and say, wait a minute, I read the Bible now for the first time and I look in the mirror and they don't match. What's going on? And if they're maturing, they're going to go to their pastor or the Sunday school teacher or whoever it is that they see as a spiritual influencer in their life and say, I can't see me in this book. Why? Can you help me find where I am? So they become hungry for what God is doing instead of what they, the picture they used to do. I was a self-prophes, I was like a self-propitiating problem. You know, I thought I was worth nothing and I lived like it. And I gave my life to Jesus and found out that he loved me. Always had, always would, would never stop. That I couldn't do anything stupid enough for him to not forgive. I didn't even know how to do anything that bad. that I was accepted as I was. I didn't have to perform. I didn't have to impress anybody. He already loved me and that was enough. I didn't know how act because it was the first time in my life when I didn't feel like I had to impress somebody. And I was terrible at it, but I didn't know there was a different way. But that was 1973. And I'm still here telling people about how much God loves us because it's that life changing. I'm sure you feel the same way. Yeah. I didn't really feel like I lost anything because God had really changed the desires of my heart so ⁓ profoundly that I just sought to, I mean, that almost became the burden because I wanted so much to do good and to really be obedient that if I Sometimes I would feel like if I'm not doing it right, oh my gosh, what does that mean? But I've come to a better place. It's then to be like, okay, there's some balance in here. But yeah, my heart, God just. took over my heart and my desires just totally for him. Like I just love him so much and I want to please him so much. So yeah, it really changed. So I was happy to give up all that stuff. Like I have no desire to go back there anymore. And I had no desire to like feel any of those ways I felt before because you know what can seem happy or good or whatever in the moment. It doesn't last. It's just not lasting and God and His power is lasting and once you know that you don't want to go back to that stuff. It's just not there's nothing there. I agree. I was in so much medical pain that I had attempted suicide four times. It was three days from the fifth attempt. ⁓ was just nothing left with the pain. It's not the right answer, but I ran out of questions even. I didn't know what else to do. And I just didn't know there was hope. I didn't even understand that there could be hope. So when I found Jesus, I mean, he'd always been looking for me, but I didn't know I could look for him. When I found him, it didn't take two hours. I jumped off the cliff of faith and found out he caught me. found out that I didn't have to know it all. I didn't have to have it all memorized. I didn't even have to stop doing anything. I just had to start falling in love with Him. And slowly but surely, with His love, He sanded off my rough edges and taught me about His love and called me to love people. And that's been the center of my wife's and my ministry for over 50 years. Just loving people. Nice. We all have to... to learn a lesson in loving people. Loving people isn't about loving the easy ones. It's loving whoever God puts in your path. And in the ways that, you know, when Paul outlines what love is, those aren't easy things. I mean, just starting with the love is patient. that's hard. ⁓ If we just get past that one, you know, we're doing pretty good. When you read the story of Paul, then you read, you know, Love is Patient, Love is Kind, it's kind of wild because Paul went through so much. I don't know anybody who was tortured more, beat up more, tartan feathered more, more abused than Paul was. Yet he still wrote Love is Patient, Love is Kind. You know, he doesn't keep score. mean, So God's measuring stick is so different than ours. We tend to beat people with our measuring stick instead of love them with his. And so we're shaming when he's trying to bless. And it's time for all of us to stop looking in the mirror and pointing our finger and saying, shame on you. How do I get past that? God, if you love me, why do I feel unlovable? How do I get past this God? And I've seen thousands of times, and I'm not exaggerating, thousands of times where people from really beat up backgrounds have watched God turn their lives around. I know pastors, know doctors, I know surgeons, I know a professors. I know someone in the space industry who... whose name I cannot use because of his career path. But they're all incredibly brilliant, wonderful, warm, loving people. And every one of them felt like they'd been dragged through a knothole backward twice and didn't feel like they had anything to offer anyone. Every one of them felt like they were useless and if they died it would be doing the world a favor until they fell in love with God. And even people that... are in love with God, like that doesn't make us immune to the enemy's tactics of trying to make us believe that God doesn't love us or that we're not good enough or that we're a burden or things like that. We're not immune to that just because we're Christians. We just always have to have our feet firmly planted in truth and that is what gives us hope, but we're not immune. to any terrible thing or thoughts or whatever. We struggle with that just like everybody else, but we have our feet planted where we can land back in the place of truth and know who God made us to be. ⁓ It doesn't make us super special, but in another sense it does make us super special because we're created in His image. And He created us to love. And when we finally get it, when the Holy Spirit is able to put the light on and show us what's really going on, we discover that there's always been a war going on. There's a side that says, hate God and I refuse God and I will not, and I don't want anyone else to love him either. And then there's the ones who've discovered the love of God. And when they give their hearts to Jesus, they change sides. And the enemy of the unbeliever is actually also the enemy of the believer. the Satan is very real. It's not a spiritual concept. It's a reality. And his goal is to hurt you, so you will hurt God. And you deny God because of depression, whatever. Satan knows that he is, one of his job descriptions is accuser of the brethren. He takes his little pointed finger and blames us. And when he does, he does it by telling us part truths. Enough truth that it's easier to swallow. And then the rest of it's all lie because we're like the fish with the worm. That worm looks so good. But yet, Once we're hooked, we're hooked. And that's the problem with the spiritual warfare piece. When we give our hearts to Jesus, then we join the war. Before that point, we were victims of the war. But once we're forgiven and God's life is shining through us, then we become part of the battle for the good, because as God gives us the strength, we have the ability to say, Satan, you're a liar. No, no, that's a lie, and I don't have to buy that. Your accusations make me want to go and love more people. We do not have to swallow the hook. We can look at it, recognize what it is and go, nope, I'm going on a vegetarian diet, no worms today, thank you. I'm gonna give my heart to Jesus. Yeah, that's right. And when we do, that's when the lives change. Now, Haley, how has your life changed now that you've been around the block a few times and you've served the... How long have you been serving God? boy. Well, I tell you, I feel like my whole life because even though I wasn't living the correct way, I still felt... I kind of felt like I had the gift of faith just in the sense that I really believed and I knew, I prayed, answered, know. I was just off the track a little while of knowing exactly what it all meant. yeah, I feel like my whole life. So over 50 years. Okay, over 50 years. I am of the opinion. This is just David talking, not first any, no chapter, just David's opinion. I believe that there's a line drawn in the sand at some point in your life. And when you draw that line in the sand and say, okay, as of now, As at this moment I give my life to Jesus and it doesn't matter what I knew here, now I'm giving the rest of me so God gets all of me. And that's when we really have a personal relationship that grows and thrives and changes us from the inside out. And it doesn't mean we didn't know before, but the difference of going and taking a picture of the Grand Canyon and going and standing at the edge of it is profound. It's still beautiful. But one is a picture of what could be. The other is the experience. And I think a lot of people were raised around church enough that they have the picture of how God is. But now it's time to experience the love of God. To stand on the edge of faith and say, I want more. I want this to be real in all parts of me. And I've got to believe in your career. That's part of what you do is to help people find that I want more moment, that line in the sand. Am I guessing right? Well, you know, I'm a licensed counselor and so I do help people with mental health struggles. ⁓ That can mean maybe they want their faith as a part of that or maybe they don't have any faith at all. I help them no matter what. So, but if they do have a faith in Jesus, it makes it very much easier because I can draw on what I know from Scripture to be true and to be good mentally healthy people who really have to live according to Scripture. It's just got so much wisdom and truth and you really can't beat that in any psychology office. But I share truths no matter what. I share truth even when there's, I don't always say John 3 16, but I still quote truth regardless where I'm at and what I'm doing because truth doesn't change just because the address changes. You know, can be in a garage and still be talking about amazing things. It doesn't have to just be on Sunday morning in a church. And for people who've been disillusioned by the church, say, don't need to go to church, well, maybe you don't think you do. But maybe it's not the church that's the problem. It was that experience in a church that was the problem. And so we kind of squeeze ourselves into a smaller box to be safe when there's really bigger and greater things available when we finally are willing to trust. But I know that with your career, sometimes you get to use the faith and sometimes you have to use what else is out there because that's what they're capable of managing at the moment. But I've got to believe that it's always available when requested. Yeah, that's right. They normally know I'm a Christian. The one thing that I found is in common with both Christians and non-Christians in the ⁓ counseling office, a lot of times is people's belief about themselves and that if they don't have a clear concept of ⁓ who they are and the good parts of them, that they can get very skewed and it causes a lot of mental health issues. So if they've got a lot of negative talk going on, and this is Christians or non-Christians, like people just get used to speaking about themselves in a certain way, and when you believe it and live it out, it can cause a lot of, I mean, you wouldn't think because they don't, if someone doesn't have their identity based in some truth, they, have anxiety, have fear, have anger, they have depression. So even for Christians I think it's really, really vital that we understand our identity in Christ first and foremost, but also just understanding who we are as people and not just focusing on the failure part, but focusing on the parts that make us unique and wonderful and everybody has those parts of themselves and sometimes it's just really helping people identify those great parts of themselves. ⁓ It doesn't mean we ignore the negative parts, but sometimes we can get so focused on the negative parts that we miss ⁓ very important things and then we kind of end up crawling ourselves into a hole because we feel so terrible about who we are when God doesn't want us to live like that either. He doesn't, he wants us to live in truth. And truth encompasses both things, encouraging things and maybe some discouraging things, but more if we look at that, we look at that with hope that maybe I'm not a, you know, whatever, a dancer. But if I really want to be, and I have a passion for that, I don't just focus on all my mess ups. I look at my mess ups and like, how can I improve that instead of just going up? I'm a failure. I've, you know, I've just got two left feet. That's how I am. Like, that's not really helpful. And that's not going to move us to where we want to be if we want to be a dancer, for example. I agree. really want people to be grounded in understanding who they are and who God created them to be while still recognizing, yes, we're not perfect. We are a process. We are a work in progress. And God wants us to be that way and always moving forward, ⁓ focusing on good and ⁓ our weaknesses as well. Well said. Well said. I find that my favorite word when I'm talking to people about these things is perspective. Because if I look at something from one view, I see one sign. Like, you look at a great big tree, and you can only see half the tree, you only get to see that view. When you look at the rest of the tree, many times they don't even look identical. They may look totally different on the opposite side. And many times in life, we believed the one side of the tree. All we've ever believed is just a picture that was painted by life. And we crawl in a hole and hide because we don't think we have much to offer anyone. What do you think? And they go, they don't even think they have words that are worth sharing. because someone or something has hindered them someplace and they began to believe the lie that they have nothing good to offer. But when they finally trust that God has, out of His love for them, has given them an opportunity for a different perspective, one based on love and forgiveness and mercy and compassion and understanding and patience. know, God has patience to put up with us the way we are until he can make us better. I know people who say, well, I can't go to church because I this and I that. My answer is, well, wait a minute. If you're going to do all that before you go to church, what's left for God? Why don't you just go to church and find out who God is, and then you and he can work out when and how and if and whatever. It's not my church. The building isn't my church. The building is where I'm telling the good news. who we are as a church, to people who go there and are seriously seeking to find out who God is, and how can we apply it? How do we become more like Him? And that's deep perspective. Yeah, and you know, we are created for relationships, so we need to be in community at church. ⁓ There are a lot of benefits of church of why God's called us to be there. Yeah, I would say, yeah, get to church. Don't let anything- Even with church hurt. ⁓ It's important to just note like that. We are in a world of sinners and people are going to be hurt and hurt We have to just remember we don't you know We serve a big God and he sees all and he will help us heal if we want to heal so We are going to be hurt in this world by others and sometimes they're by Christians and it's very sad but ⁓ God can help us still walk through that and find a ⁓ church, not a perfect one, but one that can help you in whatever place in life that you're at. a church should be a home. And homes aren't filled with perfect people. They're filled by the people who live there. When we go to church, we're going with imperfect people because that's the only kind there is. And you find the wonderful ones and it's easy to hug and pat and encourage but there's the rest of us. And the Bible tells us that part of the reason why we're in church is to bear each other's burdens so that when someone's struggling someone else can step up and help them so they don't have to fall and crash and burn. They can wobble and someone steps up and says, can do this together, let's go. We don't have to be stuck. We don't have to believe the lies any longer. And think that's exciting. And you know, it's a wonderful place to learn how to serve ⁓ others as well. Like sometimes we can go just looking to be served, but ⁓ to really have a. servant mindset like Jesus did as we go to serve we go looking how we can be an asset to the church not just what they can do for me that kind of gets us off I think a little bit of like they didn't do this and they didn't do that and I think we kind of can go in with some wrong wrong you know Thinking on that that's not really helpful and just gonna end up hurting us because yeah They're not gonna do everything because they don't know all your needs like just go to serve and God's gonna provide Exactly what we need I Agree, it's it's it's so amazing that when we when we go to church for us for me We get what we get what we want out of it when we go to church to find out about God We discover not only who God is, but he shows us who we really are. And then we find out that if Jesus can wash our feet, that's service. We can wash the feet of others. We can feed other people. We can clothe. We can renew, restore, whatever it takes. We can love them like God loves us. And that's without strings. That's without performance. And that's what makes it so beautiful when you do find a church home that you feel like you're at home. They apply what they know they find in the book, they find it in the Bible, and they determine for themselves that they're going to apply it to their lives. And when they do, people notice. When someone really decides they're going to make Jesus number one, it is obvious to those around them. because they'll slowly but surely witness the difference of what God can do when His love is given free rein. Yep. So at this point, usually we invite our guests to consider for a moment. When this is done, podcasts don't last that long, we always invite our guests to give us a golden nugget. Something to take with us as we leave this particular moment, ⁓ that you'd like our guests and viewers to... ⁓ to think about and to consider and mull over over the next week. What would you think that would be something your heart tells you to share with us? Yeah, just on the... you know, topic of what we talked about today a little bit, just my passion for people is to help them know God's truth of not just what He says about them, but in all aspects of their life of, you know, what He provides for them exactly as they need. I do, now this, I want to share scripture, but it's totally not anything we talked about today. Nugget. As all scripture is, it's from 2nd Peter 3, 8, 9. It ⁓ says, but do not forget this one thing, dear friends, with the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. We see throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament God's desire for us to turn to Him. And it's not like a conceited God that He wants us to come to Him. It is for our own benefit. He says I have all the answers. have everything you need you have a hole in your heart It's because it's missing me. I can give you exactly what you need what you were created for I created you if you don't have me you feel like you're missing something and so He has that message throughout scripture so that I think it's just so important that we know God has all we need so he's not trying to vain in us turning to Him, He's saying, I have, I made you and you need these things to feel fulfilled, to feel peace, to feel calm in your life. I've got it and I'm going I want you to turn to me and I Don't want you to perish because he is a holy God. He is a God that's going to render judgment But he doesn't want us to perish. He wants us ⁓ To turn to him and he is patient Waiting on us. So I would just encourage if anybody's out there that does not yet know ⁓ Jesus as their Lord and Savior ⁓ that ⁓ don't let anything hold you back because there's really nothing as you've said before there's nothing that you can have done that that God can't forgive he made you he knows already and he's just waiting for you to turn back to him that was kind of a big big that's beautiful that was well said my I discovered that when I was a new believer, Romans 12, 1 and 2, which became my life verse, which I'm going to paraphrase. It says, I plead with you, that you present your bodies as holy places to live, living temples, and that you present your bodies that way. This is your reasonable service. Not your impossible service, not your you'll never get their service, your reasonable service. And don't be conformed by the things here out there in this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you can prove the wonderful love of God as it's lived out through your life. David now let me tell you that was a scripture that my Bible study teacher was reading. That's a scripture. He said do not conform. This is what he read. Do not conform to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That was the light that clicked on for me or when God spoke to me through that as that scripture was read. It's powerful and I use it in counseling all the time and it's the basis of I wrote in anxiety. book to help people work through anxiety and that's the basis of that book too. That's a powerful verse. And I'm so grateful that you mentioned the book because that's the next question I have for you is ⁓ I'm assuming you've written books as in plural but more than one. Could you share with us what they are? ⁓ One is a This might not be surprising, but it's called The Worried Little Goat, and it is a story about goats. It's for those who are interested in learning about goats, and ⁓ there is a biblical message behind it that only Christians will understand, but there is a goat herd, and he's the one that takes care of the goats. It's kind of like a shepherd, but ⁓ anyway. So that's a fun book, and this is my anxiety book. It's called Changing Your Feelings, and it's based Basically the premise of it is why it's called changing our feelings because I believe that we can change the way that we feel. Sometimes people get so stuck in I can't help the way I feel or they make feelings that are idle or they just chase these. emotions like I got to do everything that makes me happy and I want to help people understand that we can manage our emotions. don't care what emotion it is we can manage it and that's what I teach how to do that in that book. That's kind of it's a workbook so it's kind of set up like the things I do to help people in counseling. And then my last book is called the Little Red Ball. and it is a ⁓ book about, told you my mom is German, ⁓ I told you that before we recorded, but ⁓ it's kind of based on the premise of her growing up in East Germany, ⁓ but in it I've included some ⁓ lessons on forgiveness and the importance of us forgiving, especially if we know ⁓ Jesus. forgave us how important it is for us to forgive because of that reason alone. So it's kind of the message in that book. They're all on Amazon or you can go to my website and they're on there. There are links on there that you can either go anywhere to kind of buy them. They're at most online bookstores so yeah. Haley, really appreciate you sharing about your books, particularly the workbook. My wife has already got her copy and is planning how she's going to use it in her Bible study to help the women that she works with that are struggling to move forward in their walk. I'd highly recommend anyone getting hold of it on Amazon and adding it to your library or getting copies for the ladies that are going through things that you know of. Maybe even having a one-on-one Bible study with someone. I think it's a great idea. So I highly recommend Healy's work. and I recommend her as an amazing person and I look forward to having a chance to have you back, Healy, and to do it again. So as we close this, ⁓ my normal closing is this. Keep seeking for God will be found. And we want you to keep seeking for the things of God so he can reveal himself to you. Keep seeking. This has been the God Says Yes podcast with David Ebel. To connect with David, email him at godsaysyespodcast.gmail.com. You can get his latest book, When the Doctors Say No, God Says Yes, at amazon.com.