Tom Anderson

David W Ebel: You are Well, welcome back. This is ⁓ God Says Yes, the podcast. My name is David Ebel and I'm your host. I'm just grateful to be here today and grateful to have this time to share with you. ⁓ I've been in ministry over 50 years, so I've met a few people and helped a bunch of people through hard times. That's why I'm still doing the podcast, is because we're not running out of people with hard times. This is a safe place. This is a place you can talk about anything. No judgmentalism, no look at you. No, it's not about look at you. It's about where are you and how can we help you get from where you are to where God wants you to be. That's our plan, that's our dream, and that's our desire. so that's why this podcast exists, is to be an encouragement, to help people see that God is better than the people around you. That is better than the betrayals, the let-go's, the hurts. the things that have happened. He's got a great plan for you and he can't wait to begin to reveal himself to you. And that's what this podcast is for. I have with me today a good brother. name is Tom Anderson. Tom is a seasoned believer. He's been around the block a couple times, much like me. And ⁓ his story includes not only the great times, but who he was. honestly, transparently, who he became when he met Jesus, and how it changed him, and hope that we can give you, the listeners, that there is something better at the end of your day besides this difficulty. So Tom, welcome. We're glad you're here. Well, thanks David. It's really good to be here. You said a seasoned I like to use this metaphor that I've gone through the meat grinder and I've come up with sweet sausage. Both my wife and I, life is a meat grinder, it's a crucible, and God's so kind, hold us in His hand while He's transforming us. I agree. Sometimes the love of God feels like sandpaper. Yeah. But the end result is a beautiful, smooth project. that he can love through and he can minister through. And that's exciting that we're not stuck where we were. We are on our way to something even greater. And we can take a lot of wonderful people along with us. ⁓ tell us about yourself, Tom. ⁓ Well, my name's Tom, like I said. ⁓ Just in terms of who I am, ⁓ I really am loved by God. I've really come over the decades, really not only believe it but sense it and live in it. that's here. I'm the husband. We've been married 53 years. And I was just telling you before we got on the air that even the last couple months, Nancy and I have realized we've gone to another level in our relationship, which is, it's hard to explain, but there's a greater sense of ease. not that we were stressed before, but I just amazed that God is never finished. bringing his ⁓ hand of blessing into our life. I'm a father of two, a grandfather of six, and soon to be a great grandpa. ⁓ Wow. Yeah, but I think through all that though, what I think really defines myself and my wife is we're a collector of friends. And ⁓ just over the years, God has really graced us that way. And I think if you think about the church really is, it's just a collection of friends that are just working together to ⁓ see God glorified and also the Kingdom be established. Because I think again, friendship is really the definition of the Kingdom. It's funny, the biblical definition of love is to deny yourself that another's needs be met before your own, without regret. Yeah. And that's what real friends are. Yeah, and that's impossible without God working that in you. We can, and I think we ought to, really try hard. But at some point, ⁓ we are no longer trying to be a Christian, or we're trying to be Christ-like. God's actually been formed within us, so we're walking in rest, we're actually doing what God has called us to do because we are, not because we're doing, even though we're doing. And we've had the privilege of looking back. over a lifetime just to see the path God's brought us on and see principles that he's established in our life and we've seen established in Scripture how he transforms people. And again we were talking before about, and you were just talking about the hope that we have and I was just actually sitting today with a young man who just went through a divorce and because of that he's come to the Lord and I said my purpose here is just to help you get through the world. wilderness, but I talked about the snapshot and the video. We become well aware of the snapshot, the hard parts of our life or the things that aren't working, but to see the video, that God has really called us to significance, to great value, to having a secure and even a glorious future. Those are the things that God has called us to, and that's the video. ⁓ So the other thing I always think about is living in two realities. We have the reality of our circumstances and our pocketbook, our health, all that stuff can be real, real, real stuff, but God said that we're in Christ. God said we're already in We're already perfected. He's perfecting those who are already perfected and that has really changed myself. That's changed my wife to really see that God has what God has done. He's already completed and we're walking into that as opposed to struggling to figure out what's going on and how do I do this? ⁓ So, yeah. But you're singing to the choir here, I totally agree with what you're saying. Our experiences are what changes us from observers to participators. when we first start, we want to be like all the church people. So some of us will stop this and try that and get a bigger Bible or a bigger cross. And my first cross after I gave my life to Christ, it a bruise on my chest. was so big. And my wife, as a new believer, saw that bruise on my chest and said, where did that come from? I said, Jesus. And she said, no, Jesus didn't beat that. on you, you beat that on yourself trying to make him happy. Our blood is wonderful. Yeah, but we try so hard to please Him. But as we get to know Him and to love Him and we learn His Word because we want to know, and He says if we hide His Word in our heart, we believe in our heart will profess with our mouth that it will be real in our lives. So when we fill ourselves with the things of God, We have a reserve. And also that reserve is there when things get hard. That reserve is there when people betray us or let us down. When jobs fall apart. When things that you just can't even, you can't imagine them happening, but they do. Anybody who tells you they come to Jesus and everything will be great, they must be drinking bubble gum juice or something because there's no promise in scripture that says, come to Jesus, it'll be super. It's just come to Jesus and I'll never leave you or forsake you. I'll be with you always. and again... He promises grace, which is God's riches at Christ's expense. He doesn't promise us easy going or lots of fun. And yet our culture wants easy going and lots of fun. So without realizing it, we're softening what God had said. because we just don't want to face the hard times ourselves. Well, to that point, the parable of the solar is really the story of becoming fruitful. And so the first soil is receiving the good news, ⁓ really receiving something from God. But the second soil, and this is to your point where people will walk away, it says, when trials come because of the word sake. So sometimes we really hear something from God and say, I've got to really believe that. But the sun comes out and there's a purpose for that and if we don't understand the purpose of just enduring, letting our roots go down and really finding God in a way that's not based on our circumstances, ⁓ then we can go on to fruitfulness. But if we don't, it says many will fall away because they misinterpret how God really produces a life that is ⁓ Christ-like. I learned when I was on the road as an evangelist, I was down in South Georgia where they plant peanuts everywhere. I love boiled peanuts, that's an acquired taste. It's an acquired taste, is. And I've acquired it, so it was fun for me the time I was there. But ⁓ I had a farmer show me how it worked because I'm from Detroit. You don't plant stuff unless it's in a little bitty tiny garden. And then you have to hurry before the rats get the vegetables before you do. So ⁓ he was explaining that the reason why he plants so many peanuts is because the ground is such that not every plant is going to thrive. And if he doesn't plant many, he won't have enough. So he has to plant beyond what he expects so that the ones that do get deep enough roots to grow and thrive will be able to become fruitful and be a good crop. And that's how it is with God. If we only give him an inch of dirt to plant his things in, the roots don't have very far to go and when a storm hits, they're gone. But if we allow God to help us root ourselves in him, in spite of people, in spite of not heads at church that are trying to act wholly and are hurting everybody in the process. In spite of everything, if we get sunk into Jesus, let our roots get deeper into who He is and what He's got, amazing things happen. Yeah, well Jesus said, abide in me. Abiding is really being planted and grafted. if that's the case, if we learn how to do that, ⁓ then fruit is inevitable. ⁓ The vine is going to look amazing. I agree. So now we've talked about your beginnings. Why don't you tell us a little more about your story? Sure. So when I was ⁓ growing up, ⁓ was in a family that I really didn't feel ⁓ valued. My dad, I perceive, did not like me. ⁓ My mom was German, so she loved me in a German sort of way, which was without much expression. ⁓ And so I really didn't have a real good sense of self. quiet and I made my way by saying yes and trying to please people. ⁓ And I didn't date. One reason I didn't date is because I didn't have the courage to ask anybody. And that changed when I got into college. I began to date, but then I hit with acne. And not just pimples. My face was beat red, my back, my chest. It just drove me into a shell. And so I was in that state for least a couple of years until ⁓ a girl took notice of me. And so even taking it a little further back in high school, the only dream I had in my life was to have the perfect marriage. And part of that was because I did not see that in my parents' The whole family was kind of disjointed and didn't really connect except through yelling or through... So we all went our own ways. And so ⁓ I met this girl 55 years ago and ⁓ we had an on-again, off-again relationship. ⁓ until one day she said it's off. She knew that what she wanted to do wasn't be ⁓ in relationship with me and so I was crushed until a couple months later she called and said, hey, I'm pregnant. And so we got married and for me I was just over the moon. ⁓ My dream was going to be fulfilled. I was married and I was going to be the perfect husband and we're going have a perfect marriage and I saw within a month that that dream was ⁓ not going to happen. ⁓ And what happened there, I had a Luke Skywalker Darth Vader dream scene experience. This is real to me today as it was back then where ⁓ up to that point if you just said, you're like your dad, I would have told you that there's no way. He was loud and boisterous. I was quiet ⁓ in the background. ⁓ But ⁓ The relationship that he had with my mom was such that he would say, we're going to do this. My mom would shut him down, and he would go sulk. And within a month, I saw that same pattern in my life. And now, I grew up Lutheran, within grade school, high school, college. It was really versed in the Bible. I knew in my head God loved me. I had a relationship with the Lord. But at that point, I said, God, if you're real. because the dream that I had for my life was just gone. And that brought us into relationships with some other struggling young Christian marriages. We went to this church, I was back in the early 70s, that's when the charismatic movement really hit and we got involved in the church. again, for a good eight years, Nancy still could not answer the question. Yes, she was married to me. Yes, we served as we could. We respected each other. So we tried to raise a family. I was not making much money because I didn't, even with a college degree, I was doing menial jobs because I was comfortable there. I had a very small comfort zone. so Nancy was clinically depressed. Looking back, that's what it was. I would come home and she'd literally be staring at a wall. ⁓ And so I would do what I could to come in home, just ameliorate the situation, get the dishes done, do all that sort of stuff. so that went on for eight years. And we had friends a couple, three years ago we were with, ⁓ and they said they never thought we would have made it. But we were sitting down one Sunday after church, the kids were napping. and we were playing some card game and Nancy was down and typically I'm an up person. Typically, even though I shouldn't be, I'm still encouraged, right? But that moment I was down also and I said, Nancy, let's pray. And so, We took hands and I don't know what I prayed and I don't know how this happened but right from here, right from my belly, this word came out of Isaiah and it just came out forcefully. says, consider not the former things, neither remember the things of old, for behold I do a new thing. Now it shall spring forth, shall you not know it, I'll make a way in the wilderness and the rivers and the deserts. I said, Nancy, do you feel that? No. And for a whole month, Whatever was holding Nancy, there's good reason things were holding her, is she had no way out. Her maiden name is Trapp, and she really felt trapped in life. But I had this word, and for a whole month it got worse until four Sundays later she said, I'm done. And she was going to get a divorce, and she walked back in the bedroom and came out changed. and we don't know how. It wasn't an angel, wasn't the glory of God filling the room, just whatever was holding it was released. And so when we come back to that word, as I said in the parable of the solar, that the sun comes out, that we actually hear something from God and we hold on to it, it seems like the exact opposite happens. And we had a visiting pastor come through about three months later and he asked the congregation this question. What does God do when you have a need? That's a great question. And he wasn't talking about I'm hungry or I'm kind of bored. He was talking about existential needs. And we said, well, he meets a need. He said, no, he doesn't. He sends a word, then he tries the word, and then he meets a need. And so we've really seen that. In fact, that verse is really one of our life verses that he makes a way in the wilderness. So I think there's a lot of people we're talking to right now in a place where they seem there's no way out. or ⁓ he makes rivers in the desert. A lot of people just really dry and not knowing what to do. But that's the very place that God shows up. And we've seen that. And so from that point on, we just began growing. ⁓ there's another point in time where... this first thing I talked about, I really saw that I wasn't who I thought I was. I think God has to do that. He has to show us that I'm not this nice guy and we got my life together, even though I knew inside I didn't, but you always think you do. But there's another point in time where, again, I was trying to get people to like me, trying to get my way by being nice, saying yes, and it served a little bit and people probably thought I was spiritual, but it really wasn't. It was my personality, the way I was trying to make life work for me. ⁓ I got a master's in counseling and one of things that we needed to do was to be counseled, which I think is great thing. So I sat down with the professor and he was really an amazing man, but he would ask me a question, then he would either go like this, the whole time, or he'd roll his eyes in the back of his head so I just saw the white of his eyes. And so now, I don't know how you'd respond, or some people say, hey, what are you doing? Stop that. I just stammered and stuttered. And this happened three or four times, and I finally realized that he was being a blank screen, and I was seeing myself there. So if you were engaged and really liked what I was talking about, I liked to talk. If you were not engaged, if you were shut down, I'd shut down. And so, and really I didn't try to take any steps after that, I just began to change and my career changed. I've spoken in front of 500 people. ⁓ I've taken steps outside of my comfort zone. ⁓ so then, ⁓ so that is really the, the foundation of our life. Since then again, it's a slow grow. Like with everyone, there's moments in time where God steps in and does something different. But most of the time we're just being faithful, seeking Him, loving each other, asking God for opportunity. I'm of the opinion that once God works on us and He gets us past me, me, me, and it becomes we, Him and us, then Him in us, the next reflection piece is us doing something with it. We become the vessel that God can love through. And so as people see us grow, we become more desirable to be around, and people want to know why we seem to have it together. We may not have it together, but their opinion is that we have it together. And so they'll say, Or how come you? Or, you know, I don't get it. Why are you happy? And that's not a time for me to go, it's the David time. Let me tell you about me. It's the time to say, you know, let me tell you about some, what I know from other people and illustrate with a few examples where people can identify and then point them back to Jesus. So everything goes back to the Nobody else died for our sins. Nobody else could shed innocent blood so their death would mean something. Nobody else did what he did so that we could have a relationship with God. So when we get past what we expect, then God can love through us and people can experience this. It's not just what we... We go through these things and sometimes they're hard. Sometimes they absolutely are miserable. But they're for a moment. In eternity, they're just a bump in the road. They don't feel like it when we're going through them. But when we look at the 53 years of your marriage, the 51 years of my marriage, I can't count how many times there's been bumps in the road. Some of them big bumps. Some of them have actually been the wheels knocked off the car. mean, you know, life was so hard you didn't know if you could make it. But, God is able. And He met us in our need. And we clung to Him. And we filled ourself up with Him. And we began to start to see hope. And then as we applied that hope, greater things happened. and all of a sudden we weren't in the middle of the crisis. People were coming to us and saying, we're in the crisis like you were. Help us believe what you believed. Yes. And everybody can do that. You don't have to have a college degree. You don't have to be a pastor. You can just be an average brother or sister of the Lord, a neighbor, a cousin. It doesn't matter who you are, if you have discovered and experienced the love of God. I mean, we're custom made by God to love. from the inside out we are made in His image. He created us to love, He has always loved us, He continues to love us, and there's not enough, we can't do enough bad to lose the love, because it's not about performance. It's about experience. And so He experiences us through our love for Him. You know, we reach out to Him and He blesses us because their relationship is there, and He can. And he can't wait to do it for even some of our listeners today, some of our viewers. They may have been through the meat grinder, they may have been through all kinds of things, but that's not the end of the story. That's just a difficult chapter in that whole book. I think there's one really bedrock that I've seen in our life is being honest, just honest with God. Again, I had all that head knowledge and I said, God, if you're real. That's not unbelief, that's just a crying out to God. I think we talked prior to getting on about our design. We were made with all need. We were made weak. We were made that we have to breathe every number of seconds. We have to eat, we have to drink, we have to relate. Where did that come from? ⁓ It came from our design, our creation. And God has created us ⁓ uniquely of all creation to connect with Him in a way that no other creature can in the universe. ⁓ And how we connect with Him is our need. And saying, God, here I am. You're the one that made me. You're the one that has the supply. And so God, I just present myself to you. It's sort of like those two blind men who said, Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me. ⁓ you know just again just sensing our need crying out to God and knowing that our need is not a fault our need is actually i call it our currency ⁓ if we want to get anything from God we can't count on our self sufficiency we can't say God I'm coming to you because I'm smart or because I've done this I've done that we come to Him because you know He's made us ⁓ He's made us needy ⁓ He's allowed us to be needy so that He can love us. If we didn't need Him, we wouldn't need Him. If we didn't have a need, there'd be no relationship with God. That doesn't make Him cosmic Santa Claus, gimme gimme gimme. It means that, like a good parent, and some of us have had good parents and some of us have had some not so good parents, but let's talk about a good parent, not your experience with a parent for a minute. A good parent takes care of his children. He looks out for his children. He provides for his children. He listens to his children. And he also corrects them when they need to be corrected because he knows the bigger picture that without that correction, there's a chance that we will grow up bent in the wrong direction and not listening to God because we feed ourselves our own God. And the wonderful thing about the Lord is that ⁓ He's not the one that turned His back on us at all. We turned our back on Him and He came to restore us back into relationship with Him. So yeah, what we do is important. But I don't think it's the most important thing. The most important thing is saying, God, I'm yours and I want to give myself to you. ⁓ Lord, I'm going to keep myself in your hands and ⁓ change me. And change me is not a one-time prayer. No, no. ⁓ I'm of the opinion, this is just 1st David 1 and 2, it is my opinion, that ⁓ there's choices that be made every day first choice is okay I'm awake so I'm still here second choice is if I'm still here I choose Jesus then I figure out the rest of the day because if I do it and I'm here what do I want to do what about this what about that I may never stop until I'm in a crisis if I can do it on my own I don't my bad habit would be that I'd become independent. When God created us to be dependent on Him, it doesn't mean we don't think, it doesn't mean we don't work a job or take care of our family, it just means that when we know our limits, and when we run into the end of ourselves, we run into the beginning of the love of God. I love that. Yeah, I've always, that's been part of my... My thought process too is that when we come to the end of ourself, we're just starting to touch the beginnings of God. That was Paul's discovery. He said that I needed to my weakness because in my weakness, That's where my strength comes from, because again it makes us dependent upon the One who has, as you said, promised never to leave us or forsake us. So God shows up again in the wilderness, and He shows up in the desert. We want to be on the superhighway, and say, God, just show me which exit to get off. But when God really wants to do something in our life, we're sometimes and most of the time in places where we don't know which way is up. And again, we can misinterpret that to say, well, God, you've left me, or God, I've blown it, God, you know, I'm walking away. But we need to see those times as times when God is ready to show up. And just again, let faith arise in our heart that God really is for me. He hasn't left me. And He's actually leading me through the wilderness. He's not leading me to end up in the wilderness. So if you've been let down or betrayed or made promises made and not fulfilled, how do you walk through that and not walk away? How do you make it through and still love God? Yeah, that's a great question and also probably a multi- I think one thing, the church is really important, regardless how faulty the church is, the relationships, for me and Nancy, there's a couple. A couple of three things that really have held us. One is we pray together. I always come back to the verse where Jesus said we're two or three, not we're 200 or 300 or 500 degree or something, we're two or three. And so probably the last 30 years we consistently pray together. And going through that early time, if we didn't have friends who we can call and actually liked us, I don't know what we would have done. I think other thing that God really used in our life is we were poor. mean, ⁓ weren't in poverty, we didn't have many options. And sometimes when we have options, ⁓ we can easily get tripped up. And so, especially if we have resources ⁓ that we can lean on as opposed to leaning on God, it's sometimes easier to do that. And so God in His kindness really stripped us of those things so that we had to rely on Him. We had to rely on other people that loved us. ⁓ But I think also this thought of who we are, the one thing that has probably changed my life more than anything else is just coming to know the love of God in sort of a different sense. ⁓ When we think of the love of God, we think about what God has done for us, and that's so important, because God has done a lot for us. But the love of God has to be defined ⁓ in eternity, not in the temporal. On the cross, God did a lot for us, but what Jesus did, He reconnected us into the relationship of the Father and the Son. The love of God has to be defined about the love the Father has for the Son and the Son has for the Father. I talk about in the atmosphere of the spirit. So it's this love relationship which has always motivated him. You look at Adam, you look at the universe, ⁓ everything reflects this divine relationship. They're held together, little dancing, swirling. I see the relationship of the Father and the Son as best friends forever. ⁓ I see their relationship as Storga, which is ⁓ the Greek word for a father-son or business relationship. They also have an eros, a passion about them. Again, we have to take the love of God and really add passion to that. They're passionate about each other. John 1 says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. And this word with is P-R-O-S, pros. In Greek it means face to face and getting closer. And so their relationship is so delightful and Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1,9 that we have been invited and placed in the fellowship of the Son. And with whom has Jesus been fellowshiping with forever and that's the Father. And so when Jesus came, his large message is, my Father, your Father, our Father. I've come so that I am the Father, you and me, I am you. That the love you've shown me, you're showing them. And so ⁓ this is something that just the last probably five, six, eight years has really been grabbing my heart to see myself that way as opposed to seeing myself as a leper that God loves just because he loves. And sometimes as Christians we can have that sort of mentality that I'm just this person that's not doing well and God loves me just because He's love. But God loves me because He's passionate about me. And when that starts to grab hold of you, I think your sense of self changes and you really begin to see yourself as the loved of God or as a son of God. And again, this word son is not a gender-tinged word. mean, again, you have to define sonship by Jesus because He is the Son. And who is Jesus but the one who has a relationship with the Father and a position of authority in the cosmos. He's over everything. But the same with me. I have a relationship with the Father and with Jesus, but I also have positions of authority in my home. I actually work part-time at a church. I manage their facility. So I have authority there. And my authority is to serve and protect. That's how Jesus defined authority and that's how God initially defined authority when he put Adam in the garden. And so as I see my life I'm established in the kingdom by serving my wife, by encouraging her, by ⁓ receiving from her a correction. And again, my friends too, I'm there just to really impart to them the life of God which is in me. I'll tell you, this is ⁓ one of those things that the more you get into it, there's more there. It's kind of like peeling an onion. You get that with this piece and there's still more. And it's just as powerful as the one before it. And with our walk with God, I mean was 20 before I found out that God's last name wasn't Damn. I was raised without it. As a result, when I went to church, because the girl was cute, and Jesus revealed himself to me, I didn't know what to think. I flabbergasted it have been an easy word. I didn't get it. It just made no sense at all. Because instantly I felt loved. I felt accepted. I felt believed in. I didn't feel I had to perform to do anything to earn that love. and that was the first time in my entire life that I felt that. as I've lived through 50 plus years of ministry, I've found hundreds, even more than hundreds probably, of people who, their expectation of God and my expectation of God are very similar, because they never experienced the love of God. And there's a big difference in the knowledge of God. and the passionate love of God. kind that sets you afire. When I met my wife, I had not had a great dating relationship. I wasn't shy. was trying too hard. I was so intense with my medical problems that I over killed, I pushed. And therefore, finding a girl that would go with me, the smallest kid in the school and the most intense, it was kind of lonely. And as I fell deeper into the sludge of life, my compromise level changed, and pretty soon I would date anybody that would date me. I didn't care. I didn't care what they looked like, didn't care about anything. If they'd date me, I'd date them. And my relationship was such that I didn't expect that anyone would ever really, really love me. I didn't think I had anything good to offer. I knew all the stuff I couldn't do, but I had no idea what I could do. And when God revealed Himself, all of a sudden I knew that He loved me, and I knew that He cared about me, and I knew that He accepted me, and I didn't have to perform to do it. I could just come to Him now, and come every day, all the time, and I would never be sent away. That was beyond description. Now I can tell you all these years later that my love for him is greater because I know how much his love doesn't need to get any greater because it's already at full bore. Yes. But now I get it and see how much more he's always loved me because I'm now in a position to receive that love. And as I receive it, I give it. I become that open vessel so that the love of God that I receive, you receive. Whether you dress right night, you dress fancy or you dress in homeless clothes, no matter who you are or whatever you are, the love of God is free to you because God created you to love. Yes. That's been the most freeing thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah, I think you mentioned this too about, I talk about having an internal digital recorder that tells us who we are. part of that is our growing up, part of that is physical handicap. For me it was ⁓ not thinking I was worth anything. And so that's always playing in the background. And so I think part of the gospel is that's not you. You are loved. ⁓ And so I've been writing right now through the book of Jude, and I think it's such a remarkable book. off by saying, who are loved by the God the Father, called and kept by Jesus Christ. And so when you think of your three greatest soul needs, if these three needs met, I think you could take on the world. And that is to know your ⁓ intrinsic worth, to know your significance, and to know that you're safe, that you have a secure future. so in those three words, loved is valued. Called is significant and kept is safe. And so I think we have to ⁓ do some combat because we have an internal ⁓ enemy, as it were, that sabotages us. There is a devil, I think the devil probably has less to play with this even though he drops some accusations. We have to understand that our default position is not loved, called, and kept. And so we have to contend until that really becomes a reality. And then at the end of the book, what does he say? He says, keep yourself in the love of God. So we're to first contend until the reality of us being loved by God. ⁓ that that's our identity, that's who we are. ⁓ It really takes hold and then once it happens then we build on that by, it says, yourself up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, and by anticipating mercy. Those are the three activities that we have to do. Again, we have to do things. We can't just say, you know, I have this and God, you have to change me. We say, God, you've already changed me, I'm going to take some steps, because it's always by grace through faith. So, God has already done it, God's initiated it, but we take some steps of faith to see God actually do what He said He's done. Amen. So, as we go through these different steps in our lives, we're going to discover, if you will, milestones. Discovery at the beginning. Acceptance along the way. ⁓ Interaction with God in discovering that there's more there than we thought there was. Strength when we really, really need it. Courage when we feel like we've run into the end of ourselves. Grace, His mercy, how He reveals Himself to us when we really need it. And then out of that comes the reflection of the love of God to others. Yes. And that's the part that a lot of us have forgotten. We've been so long in survival mode that we forget to serve. And I mean there's food pantries everywhere that could use volunteers. There are all kinds of ways you can serve. ⁓ In almost every city there is a Salvation Army that can always use volunteers. Wherever you go, there are places where if you have the love of God to serve with, are venues waiting for you to demonstrate that love by doing something with it that will impact another person. Yes, and sometimes doing those very things is the catalyst to see change. If we're not willing to take steps or we're afraid to take steps, or ⁓ I think about the most precious thing that God has ever given anybody is their sense of self. And we do everything to protect it or project it. And God wants us to be able to just give it. Give it to the Lord. God, you've made me. going to give it to you and when we do that we can take steps and serve. Life really, when you think about the kingdom of God, is, ⁓ Jesus said if you want to be the greatest, and God never said don't think about being the greatest. We can all want to be the greatest in the kingdom of God, but The way up is really down. The way up is finding places to serve where you're not recognized and you're doing it because of the love of God in you. I'm sitting here with my eyes closed just thinking about what you're saying resonating in it because there's so much to it that it seems like that I could almost picture what you're saying like video. I can just experience it with you. you know I'm praying that something that's been said and shared today will reach a heart that really needs that love, that needs that acceptance, that is willing to love us even when we feel unlovable. I've had people say if they walked into the church it would cave in on them. Well I can assure you brother or sister that there would be a lot less churches if that was true. The church doesn't cave in because we've been gone a while. The church is fuller when we finally come back. Because the church isn't the building. It's the believers. who are willing to let the love of God reflect out of themselves to each other. And one thing about relationships, and then we're closing up a little bit, whether it's a marriage relationship or a church relationship, there's two wonderful things that relationships do. And the first thing, it exposes your fault lines. When you get into relationship, I talk about all the phantoms of your past or the garbage you have is dumped out on the floor. And so we have to recognize that as important and not say, well, this relationship isn't working because I'm seeing this in you, I'm seeing this in me. Relationships are designed to bring this out in us. But also, if we continue on walking with the Lord, relationships are the vehicle God uses to heal us. And so staying committed, even though we might have some, ⁓ it's the preference versus the principle, ⁓ Most of the things we have is preference. There's very few principles that we can die on the Hill in when in relationships. If we're there to love someone else, ⁓ their opinion about politics is not a principle. It's your preference to say, we can disagree, but I love you. and we're going to walk together. And I think that's what God's calling the church to, because there's lot of underlying tension with what's going on in the world. And then we also prickly, you know, we have our feelings of what's my ministry, why isn't God doing this for me? And I think we have to lay all that down and say, God, I'm here. Like Jesus, who being in the form of thought of not robbery to be equal with God. But from that place of understanding of who he was, he gave up at all. And I think as we begin to see ourself as sons and daughters of God, have a high sense of self, we can actually give that up and serve. ⁓ So yeah. I think we've covered a lot of ground in a short time. And I'm excited about all that you've shared. I would think as we kind of wind this down that there's a gold nugget that you'd probably want to offer to our viewers and listeners. Something they can mull over, polish a little bit, take with them and think about over the next week or two. Well, I'm going to give you two. ⁓ The first one is about three, four years ago, this really dropped in my heart. It's really defined my life. And that is, Jesus was on the cross, it is finished. And a lot of times we'll just take that and say, Jesus did it and the cross is finished, our forgiveness and salvation is secure, and that's great and that's true. But my life is complete. Again, Hebrews said, he's perfecting those he's already perfected. And so as I see my life, I'm walking into really a glorious future, a secure future, one that I can't even begin to imagine, because God's already done it. When he died on the cross, that was complete. So that has really, really ⁓ captured my heart, and I can walk in rest and walk in anticipation. And the other thing is just preserving You know, we're all clueless. We all have such a little bitty knowledge of whatever we think we might have, and we say, like Abraham said, Lord, hear my And just to say, God, here am I. And just wait there and just say, I'm giving myself to you. And I think we see some amazing things happen in our life just by intentionally giving ourselves to Him. Amen. Well, I think down the road we need to bring you back and have you share some more. I'd love that. I'd love that. ⁓ But for tonight, think we probably covered a good deal of ground. Tom, do you have a website that people can look to? Yeah, I sure do. My name is Tom Anderson.in. ⁓ I'm writing right now through the book of Jude. It's really, really good. It's about identity, who we are. I've written a couple books. I have a couple messages that I've preached on identity and the love of God, because ⁓ we're not going to know who we are unless we really know deep in our bones that God loves us not as not as Fido. We could have a relationship with our dog, but he'll never get our jokes. He might like you, you'll never sing with him, you can howl with him, he'll never sing with you. God's created us to have a relationship that is so unique and so intimate. ⁓ So this is the love of God that I really, really think God is going to be opening up more and more to the Christian world. ⁓ Yeah, anyway, so my website will house that. If you want to connect with me, can chat with me. fine, too. I'd love that. So your writings, everything is available on your website? Yes. That's great, and I hope that people will look it up. and take advantage of what he's been sharing because it's meaty, it's good food for the soul. And I'm grateful that we've had this chance. Tom, would you like to close us in prayer before we go? Oh, I'd love to. God, again, here we are, Lord. Father, our words, as the song says, our words fall short. But you never fall short, Lord, that you're reaching out. to many right now, many that are questioning, ⁓ really wanting to know Lord. And Father, I would just really ask you that you would just give grace to everyone, just say, Lord, I'm here. Lord, I don't know. I need to know. I call on your name. And so God, I also pray for my brother David, again for his ⁓ physicality, Lord, for his ministry. Lord, God, thank you that your anointing ⁓ goes way beyond ⁓ our limitations. In fact, it's accentuated through our limitations. So God, thank you for your anointing on this brother and on his ministry. We just pray this in Jesus' name. My friends, thank you for coming and spending time with us today. God says, yes is a promise. It's not just a slogan. God has planned from the beginning that He would be there for us, that He'd never leave us or forsake us. So if we seek after God, He will be found. If we want to know Jesus better, the best way to do it is through His Father. So I would invite you in this coming week to seek after Jesus. He will be found. This has been the God Says Yes podcast with David Ebel. To connect with David, email him at godsaysyespodcast.gmail.com. You can get his latest book, When the Doctors Say No, God Says Yes, at amazon.com.