Cassian Bellino

David W Ebel: you Welcome to the God Says Yes Podcast. You are welcome here. Welcome back. is David Ebel and this is God Says Yes podcast. We do this for one reason and one alone. This is a place that you can be safe, that you can be yourself, that you're no judgmentalism involved, just you are you and I am here with a guest and we talk about the love of God. We want you to know that God created each of us one at a time from the inside out to be like Him. It's not about what we look like, it's who we surrender ourselves and be like because we let God's love shine in us. Doesn't matter how many times you've been hurt, betrayed, whatever, church hurt, doesn't matter. It's not how you got to where you are. It's what you would like to see happen in your life if you gave God the chance. I I understand sometimes when you go to a church and not everyone's living in a way that we think is warm and kind. That's terrible and it's sad. But that doesn't mean Jesus changed. That doesn't mean God's love changed. It just means you showed up at the wrong place at the wrong time. But God still has a love for you and he wants to receive you where you are and take you from whatever you've gone through. Heal you, deliver you, give you grace, and move forward in your life. So that's why we're here. I've been doing this over 50 years and it's still better every day. My guest today is Cassianne Bellino. She is a young, bright mind who loves God tremendously. And she's given her life to the idea that someone needs to plainly teach us what the Bible says in words we can live with today, that we can apply now. And I'm excited that we finally, after many tries, we have finally connected so that this important story can be told. So, Cassianne, welcome. Thank you so much for having me, David. I'm so thankful and grateful to be here. so Cassian, tell us a little about yourself. Okay. Well, my name is Cassian. I live in Honolulu and I am the youngest of five of six people. So I, I have my parents and my siblings and we love each other a lot. I was raised in a Christian household and we moved around quite a bit. And I say all that to say that up until 18, I was going to church. every single week. I was going to my dad's orthodox church one Sunday and then the next Sunday my mom's Protestant church. And we would rotate that every single week. I was raised in the faith and we weren't just, you know, Easter Christian, Easter Christmas Christians. We were really rooting our identity in what the Bible says. Anytime I snuck out or got grounded, I was always, you know, God's identity in me. However, when I graduated college and I participated in everything in college, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol. I knew that now I'm a woman and I want to be just like my mother, a godly woman. But I didn't know much. For some reason, I just didn't care enough about my sin. I was okay with my sin. I didn't feel convicted enough at all to change it. But I knew there was a lacking in who I was and this woman of God that I envisioned and saw in my mother. And my first job out of college, I moved to Bangkok, Thailand. It was an amazing job. ⁓ And I found a church there and I, you it my first time living abroad alone, working, all the things. And I felt really homesick. So I went into this church and I loved it. And it was really cool. You know, it half Thai, half English. The pastors were a Swedish couple. It was very international. And after a while I got really comfortable and I went up to the female pastor and I thought I was being super helpful with the suggestion. I thought when I approached that pastor, pastors know everything about church. That's why they're the head of the church. They know everything about the Bible. They know all the languages, all the history, all the context. Why aren't they telling us more at that 90 minute sermon? And so I thought I was being helpful by saying, Hey, I know you know everything. ⁓ but to be honest, I don't know who John is. How old is John? Where does he live? What would he do if he existed today? I feel like if you gave us some context about the character that we're reading about in the That would help everybody. And honestly, you know, looking back, that was so entitled of me to tell a pastor how to do her job, but it came from a place of, thought you were a pastor and you knew this. I thought you would want to help us. I thought this was information that you were like, ⁓ great feedback. I didn't know at the time that pastors aren't trained in a hundred percent of the Bible. They're trained on the new Testament and ancient language, leadership skills, counseling. That's the requirement to become a pastor. They're not required to learn Old Testament, ancient languages and history, everything. That's a scholar, that's a theologian, that's a professor, different routes. Didn't know that though, because I felt that she did. That was just my perception that pastors knew everything. So her response was, I love your hunger. You should join our Bible study. I like, I'm already part of it. And again, thought we'd be studying the Bible, but we're not. We're talking about our weekly testimony. I need someone to explain history, geography, timelines, context, socialism. Like what's going on? What was that? You needed meat. I needed meat. I needed context. I was like, I'm already in the Bible study. She's like, okay, love it. Maybe you need to go to seminary. And I just graduated college. So as a Christian, felt, ⁓ so my choice here is be confused or go back to school. because you're not going to help me. The resources you gave me, I've already exhausted Bible study. And I remember kind of talking about this with my friend at lunch who went to that church and I was like, you know what? It really isn't hard. I just want a podcast where there's a really smart person and they're not leading me in a sermon. They're not educating me like a lecture. They're just answering questions and adding context. And then there's a really funny person because I think that the Bible has like a lot of humor in it in a way that we can enjoy it, not make fun of it. ⁓ That was the fall of 2018. I was like, okay, that's it. I would love God and I would be more into this Christianity, the one that I was raised in. I'm really just lacking information. So once I find that podcast, I'll be good to go. Five years later, I started that podcast. But in those five years, God took me on a journey that just like warmed my heart. And he challenged all my perceptions of Christianity, you know? I thought Christian literature was always kind of weird and emotional and cringy, but he brought books into my life that I read and I enjoyed, you know? ⁓ Books like the Book of Longing, like Sue Monk Kidd, and you know, Every Woman Knows Redeeming Love, but also books like Crazy Love, like Francis Chan, and that book is... It's a life changer. You I was warned about that book. People were like, once you read that, your life will change. And so I didn't read it for a long time. And then you read it and he's so good about saying this is Christianity. Everything else isn't. You don't get to decide what's in the gray area. This is Christianity. Everything else is. And it's a it's a loving book the way he says it. So when I read in Francis Chan, like the only thing we're really called to do is no God love others. I was like, done. That's really simple. And so very funny enough at the same time that I'm going through this long period of like warming up to God, like God is just like prepping my spirit. I'm breaking up with like the love of my life. Like this guy that I was so in love with, we go through a breakup and I go through all this Jesus stuff and then we get back together and he's like, well, what have you been up to? And I start telling him all about Jesus and this and this, because at the time, like I prayed to God, God. I don't want to love you out of obligation. I want to love you because you're the only option. The only option I have is to love you because you're so cool. Not loving you is ridiculous. Like it should be a no brainer. So show me that data. You know, make it seem like what is it about Jesus that is like the life changer? Like why is following you the best decision I could ever make? Show me that. Like don't make, don't let me have a choice about this because I'm a pretty logical girl. I'm just lacking data. And so I've gotten a lot of data. I get back together with my guy. And he's like, what are you up to? And I'm going off about Jesus. And he comes back with, well, what about Buddha? Like, ⁓ no, runny glee yolks. And even like the Holy Spirit gave me a vision about this man. And it was just like so evidently clear that we're not meant to be together. And I ended up like sharing that vision with the guy. And he was like, yeah, that's true. That's what's happening to us. And so I'm having all these like God moments and. I was even brought into this Bible study filled with prayer warriors, so kind of like reshaping my view of Bible studies. It should be teaching me versus like it was a beautiful community that I got to experience of women that prayed for me and encouraged me. So I have all these great feelings about Christianity. ⁓ I put it on God, where do want me to move? He makes it very evident. He wants me to move to Hawaii. I move here. I'm getting involved with churches, trying again, find my footing, trying to become that woman of God. I still am kind of lacking that data because I haven't found that podcast. haven't found a podcast that does what I need. know, every YouTube video is a two hour lecture and every podcast is, how are you feeling about Jesus this week? Like, I don't care about that. I didn't need that. That serves a different purpose for a different person. But for me, I needed context, I needed education, and I couldn't find what I was looking for. So I'm here in Hawaii in 2023. I'm joining by like churches. part of the. worship team, people are like, God's gonna use your voice. They're prophesying. And I'm like, yeah, cause I sing, yeah, pop, totally. And then I'm kind of like talking to my sister, like, and Maggie, like has been such a huge encouragement in my faith. I was like, I still haven't found that podcast. It's crazy. Cause I've been looking and she's like, well, maybe you're supposed to start it. I was like, Maggie, you saw me in college. You like, it would be such an easy hip, like in the height of cancel culture, it would take nothing to see what I was like. to I was so under qualified to run a Christian podcast, not to mention the logistics. I didn't have how do you run a podcast? Like what equipment do you need? Do you have to know audio levels? Who would I talk to? Like when she said that it was so evidently like a bad idea that I would do it. And she's like, but like maybe like maybe you haven't found it because God wants you to do it. And it was like six months of me telling God, being like, God, I. I'm not a good Christian, I shouldn't run a Christian podcast. And then it was like, crap, if my friends know I'm Christian, they might not be my friends, because they'll think I won't want to go out and drink with them. And, you know, who would I talk to? And so he slowly answered each issue. You know, he put me on the phone with my sister's Bible studies leader's cousin, and she told me how to run a podcast. know, super simple. She's like, you're so late to the game. The tech is really easy and simple. You know, there's Riverside to anchor to Spotify. Shout out to Riverside. And ⁓ And then she's like, okay, and then I was dating this guy at the time who was bragging about this idea that I had and he was taking scholars out on a hike and they're like, we'd be happy to go on her podcast. So now I have guests, now I know what to do. And I was like, oh, but like, what if I fail? That's embarrassing. I don't want to fail. And I get on another phone call with sister, cousins, dog's mother. And she's like, listen, I don't, I don't think God really cares if you start a podcast. I don't think that's like the calling on your life. I think God just wants to hang out with you. And like, to be honest, if no one hears the podcast, then no one knows you failed. And she just like spoke so much logic into me and I was like, okay, done and done. And so I'm still like, okay, this isn't a bad idea. I'm still not completely won over. And ⁓ then there was this moment where I was flying from LA to Honolulu and I'm talking to my brother-in-law about baptisms because he just got baptized. And I was like, I want to get baptized again, but. I know I'm gonna sin. Like how do you get through that? And I was having all these questions about baptisms and I sit down on a Southwest flight, the guy that's next to me is watching baptism videos. And I was like, thanks Holy Spirit. I'll talk to this guy. And so I kind of like strike up a conversation and he just so happens to be a pastor going on vacation in Hawaii with his family. And I can see his wife behind me, like eyeing me, giving me this like, why are you talking to my husband look? And I was like, okay, yeah, this isn't the vibe. I'm not gonna. to this guy about my sins that I'm struggling with and my podcast, that's stupid. So I put on my headphones and I don't talk to him for the rest of the flight. And I told God, hey, it feels like you really want me to talk to this guy, but it just feels socially weird. So God, if it's just like your will for me to talk to him, he has to talk to me. He has to come to me. He's on vacation with his family. He's not gonna come up to me. And so we exit the plane. We don't speak on the flight. put my headphones in, I'm unreachable. Someone taps me on the shoulder, hey, by the way, here's my card if you ever wanna call me. It was the pastor. I was like, okay, he got me God. And so I was like, okay, I will call you. I call him, I tell him everything that I've been going through. And he gave me some really great preacher advice. He was like, listen, this isn't a choice anymore, Cass. God is commanding you to do this. If you don't, you are disobeying him. Why did you have to say that? I thought I had to show him. Like, I don't want to disobey God. I thought he was just like, me options. And after that, I was like, okay, I have the podcast, I have the name, I have the guest, I have the topic. I just had to hit record. And I sat on that record button for like a couple weeks, because I was just so scared. You you have this moment where you... You don't want someone to ask a question, then you go blank. You just don't know if that will happen and you don't know what you'll do when it does. And then you kind of get through that fear and you're like, well, let's end it on pause. know, like it's not a big deal at all. You you kind of like just with experience get better. And that was September, that was October of 2023. Our first episode was with Dr. Christopher Carr from Misericordia on demons from the Catholic perspective. And it was perfect. It was a perfect episode. We. And then I revisited that episode. I revisited that topic about Legion, but Dr. James said the second later and it's been wonderful. mean, 75 days into creating this podcast, the setup was simple. I create the podcast on a weekly basis. I post about it on Instagram, let people know. I don't know anything though about like marketing and podcasting and automations or anything, but so I'm just posting freely. I don't know what I'm doing. 75 days in it goes viral. because Dr. James Sedlicek told me and I clipped to the moment where I was like, the first five books of the Bible are the Torah? Jews and Christians are reading from the same book? I didn't know that. I thought the Torah was a completely separate book. I clipped that, I put that online, people go insane. I get 50,000 followers in a week, hundreds of DMs from all over the world. And half the comments are, you're an idiot, known this my whole life. What kind of church did you go to that you were never taught this? The other half. The other half of the comments were, I didn't know that either. I've been a Christian my whole life, I didn't know that. This was so helpful. And I was like, ⁓ there's others like me out there. And so I just kept going and going and going and going. And, you know, there were moments where I didn't have any guests lined up because I didn't know anybody in this space. So I think like six months in, I was like, OK, that was a good run. Nobody to interview left. I'm not going to do this solo like that defeats the purpose. I don't know where a guy from India. emails me, he's like, hey, would love to work for you. I've interviewed people in my own podcast, lists a bunch of people. And he's like, see, I've interviewed people that you've interviewed. I'm a great fit to work for you. And I was like, I can't pay you, because I don't make money from this either. Can you send me your CRM of people though? I got a whole nother year of people to reach out to. And now I'm booked out for the rest of the year. so, know, God willing, I keep finding them, but I keep telling God, like, listen, God, this is not my podcast. We'll do what you want to do. If you want to end it, that's cool. If you want me to make a ton of money from that, that would also be cool. But if you also want to end, this is, it's just funny because people ask like, what's next? What are you going to do after this? It's like, I have, I've never once been able to control what happens next with this podcast because that's not mine. So we'll see. But now, you know, kind of like it has been a huge fruit in my life. Like it's planted so many seeds inside of me, you know, I was so afraid of this blowing up because what would happen? Because I only had atheist friends. I thought maybe for sure they would stop being friends with me and I'd have to start over. But no, all my friends are still my friends. They ask about my work. I get to basically talk to them about God because that's what I've been doing all day. And I get to kind of be that Christian seed in their life that shows it to them. And to a point where somebody reached out once privately, was like, you're the most Christian friend I have and this is what's happening to me. I was like, think God, like that was why you kind of let me be around Christians my whole life. I felt shame about that, but now I kind of see maybe what you were doing there. ⁓ And my heart posture has absolutely changed on so many things, on the things that I was previously not convicted on and now I am. And facing a lot of spiritual warfare and needing to cling to God in moments and trusting Him through some of the lowest points over the last couple of years. ⁓ It's just been such a blessing because like when you're in something so low and I know you can speak to this is like, God, I know it'll work out. I know it'll be for like your glory. It just sucks that I'm here currently. But like as a Christian, you have that knowing that it won't last forever. And you just know that it's going to work together for his good. But like in the moment where you're still in the middle of it, when you're still in the middle of that river, you're like, yeah, this sucks, but I just have to keep going. ⁓ and You know, now I have a better life than I've ever had before. This is amazing. I'm so glad that you're telling us how you got to where you are. This is important because you're not the only one searching. There's a many, many, many of us searching. Some of us have an ego problem that we don't want to admit we're searching. Yeah, I do think that holds up a lot of people. The other thing is trial and fail. If I tried it, it failed, nevermind. I'm not willing to fail again. And so, well, you know, if you went to a restaurant and ate bad food, you don't give up on food. And if you, you know, an experience by itself in most cases is an experience by itself. It's not the rest of your life. Yeah. And to, to say tried and failed and nevermind, it limits what God can even do in your life because you, you locked the door and then you put the table in front of it and barricaded it. Yeah. When, God is at the window, gently knocking going, When you're done, let me know when you're ready. I'm still here. I haven't moved. Yeah. So now that you're at this point, what do you think is next? I'm not sure. I don't know. That's what I you to honest. Yeah. I mean, I really like what you just said, David. I think that they I look back at each year and full transparency. When I first started this, I didn't make money at all. I don't even know how I would have made money. Second year, I think I made 500 bucks, which was a big deal. Over a year. Last year, I just did my taxes. I made $13,000. But my expenses were $13,000. Talk about manna from heaven. Like I think maybe in one way you're like failure, no net profit. But I do think that the exponential growth, just historically speaking, God is doing something. He's building something. Whether I'm living in my dream apartment or not. You know, like those things don't matter because it's evident looking backwards that he's building something. And I've had the most insane opportunities come about. Like Lee Strobel had a movie in the theaters, Case for Miracles. I hope everyone saw it. It was in 850 theaters across the US, produced by the Sandoval Brothers. I had a billboard in that. I got to interview Lee Strobel. This week I'm interviewing Tony Dungy, an NFL Hall of Fame coach. I just, would have never had any of these opportunities if I stopped, just because I wasn't. making $50,000 a month. Like that was a success metric in my world. And God said, that's not my success metric for this, but you're going to keep, because I like have gone in circles about that. What do I do next? And my sister Maggie is always like, well, what was the last command God gave you? And I was like, to start a podcast. She was like, then keep podcasting. Don't create a coaching program. Don't create an app. Don't go out and. start doing retreats, just do the podcast. And I think simply because the command is so simple and I'm the one over complicating it, and God is just like, as long as I don't give up, the opportunities are still ahead. And so I don't like what's happening next is I'm going to record with you and then I'm going to record with Tony on Thursday. And then next week I have somebody on Wednesday that I record. That's the plan. That's what I'm doing. And I'm going to keep posting and hopefully And I know that it's going to exponentially take off in a way that I can't even fathom, but I'm going to keep highlighting topics in new ways because I've touched on the same topic multiple times. I think we've talked about dinosaurs like four times each time though. I'm different. And each time it'll be said slightly differently that it might reach somebody in a very specific way that previous episodes never did. And like exactly what you're doing, David is you're just reaching people. I just, hope that this is just an archive of resources that I get to leave behind. That's it. Like my empire is that people have conversations they get to listen to. Cassie, and one of the things that I, that blesses me is as I've got into the podcasting circles, now other podcasters are helping me make connections with people who match my vision. So I don't have to contact 50 people to get an interview. I have somebody reaching me and saying, told me to contact you. You match. And it's phenomenal. So I'm getting interviews from all over the world. I miss this little guy from the edges of Detroit who never thought he'd ever get out of a neighborhood. And now I've hit 49 states and 20 countries, and now with the podcast world. I'm old enough now where touring is hard. Traveling is not easy for So podcasting allows me to go and still be home. ⁓ And so that's still freeing. And as far as making money from doing it, I've yet to make money at anything I've ever done. I don't think podcasting really makes money. But I'm as rich as I could possibly be in the things that matter. But I don't have enough zeros in my bank account to... One says it's only gonna be... I know right away we're already on a different plane. You know, but I'm not worried. God is good. He takes care of his own. And one of the sweet things I learned young in my faith was that God will never set you up to fail. He never denies himself a good thing. So he prepares you before he sends you. You were equipped before your sent. So it's not like you just went into podcasting. God was sanding on your rough edges and working on you before the time. so that when the door opened, you were already smooth, the varnish was applied, and you're pretty much a finished project for the beginning. But each day and each week and each month and each year, you're going to grow and you're going to enhance and you're going to be more, because it's the living Word of God. you can share the same thing 25 times, but it'll be received 25 different ways, because... how that person is listening, what their story is, what they're going through. Yeah. And so you being out there and being willing is amazing. And I'm excited for you. Thank you. Yeah. It's a really exciting place to be. And it's such, it just feels so lucky to be used. You know, I prayed for purpose so much in my life and it's just, I'm insane because he did, he gave me the most purpose. This is the most important thing that I've that I've ever done in my life and I get to do it because God wants me to like that is an insanely blessed place to be. I'm so excited. You got me all charged up. Just listening to you. I appreciate you letting me tell my story. I've been waiting. I've been I've known in my heart that this disappointment that we're having this divine appointment right now that we're having this has been prepared. God already. lubricated the way, greased the skids on the slide, everything was ready so that when it was the right time, he could just go push. And everything just goes the way God wanted it to go. I just have to keep me out of the way. So what is... I'm trying to figure out how to say this, I'm mumbling here. If you were to sit down with some people who had heard your podcast and they say, we have coffee? What would you give them as a golden nugget, something to take with them that they could mull on, that they could dwell on, that would help them get from point A to point B to point C? What would that golden nugget sound like? You have all the time you need. Yeah, I mean, I think it depends on, you know, what people want to know. I think the biggest revelations that I've had being having hundreds of conversations with scholars has just been how much scripture can change once you understand it in context. ⁓ I always like to talk about the bleeding woman as like the best example. ⁓ And just I think it's really important to get excited about our faith because like the crux of the issue. with what was going on with me. And what makes me really passionate about what I do is that I gave my life and my soul to this faith. I volunteered. I raised my hand for this. And yet I don't understand it. And I can't explain it. And you would never put yourself in a position to marry somebody that you couldn't explain why you love them. But yet we do it with our faith. I'm not going to marry guy and not be able to say, well, why did you marry him? Why do you love him? I should be able to list out a million things because I've spent so much time with him and I love him. ⁓ I couldn't do that with my faith. And I think that us as Christians should be held accountable that we can't passively participate in a faith that we don't understand. And I don't blame anybody because it's not like there's tons of resources. Hence the podcast. The podcast is meant to be a resource to solve this exact problem. to translate the Bible into a modern context within the proper exegetical understanding. ⁓ I just think Christians should be held accountable of why we should be able to give a defense for our faith. know, at 1 Peter 3.15, we should be able to do that. And I couldn't. And I think that everyone, I challenge you, can you? If not, I understand why. It's not your fault. But maybe we can use it as an area to grow in. And actually, I won't talk about the bleeding woman. I'll talk about Jeremiah 29, 11, because that was my confirmation verse. When I was nine years old, I was confirmed on Jeremiah 29, 11, for I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord plans to prosper you. What I have this on the back plans to prosper you and not to harm you plans to give you hope and a future. And I was raised on God's plan. God's got a plan for me. God's got a plan. You know what he thought about me and he made a plan and the good things that are happening will happen because they're part of his plan. The bad things that are happening. Don't worry. God has a plan. Who told that's not what that verse says. But I said that to myself as if God said it to me. And so I have this fake faith in my head that I made up myself and I'm holding God accountable to the fake faith that I created. You put Jeremiah 29, 11 in context. It's saying God is speaking to his people, exiled in Babylon. saying that I have a plan for you. You will call upon me and I will respond. These plans where you're walking into exile in a polytheistic Babylonian culture. I know this seems rough, but I've got you. There's a plan. will prosper. You will prosper. And I will not harm you. God is talking to them. He's not talking to me, but as a believer, I can look at that verse and say, look at God. He shows up for his people. I serve a God that makes promises to his people. keeps those promises and looks out for his people, he thinks about those people, even when it looks like they're being led into death. That's the God I serve. That's the verse that I was confirmed in. And I don't think, and you know, so then I started thinking, well, what other verses, what other verses are we doing that with? like, what, is there like an entirely wrong faith in my head? Like I need to go line by line in the Bible. And Dr. Janine Brown came on my ⁓ podcast and she, She was like D.A. Carson, you know, we went through like seven verses and it was the isogegetical versus the exegetical understanding. And isogegetical is what do I see into the verse? Kind of like God has a plan for me. I saw in that verse and it made sense in my terms. Exegetical is pulling from the text what God's insights are, reading it in context. What is God intending with this text? Not what I intend, but what God intends. So that's a really great episode where we go through like seven verses and we put it in context so we get the exegetical understanding. But that's kind of like the crux of the whole podcast now. It's like, okay, so this is... I could do this with so many different verses. So if I were to give somebody a golden nugget, I'd probably just talk all day about the verses that I thought I knew what they meant. And now that I've spoken with Scholar, what they actually mean. And that's just me being passionate. If I were to give somebody a golden nugget... It'd probably be something more so like the best way to start growing with your faith. I was just talking with this young man and I know that my brain is going everywhere, but I was just talking to this young man. He's like, well, I'm super lukewarm. My problem is women. What do I do? I was like, yeah, cause sex is awesome. I don't think that like you're a natural for enjoying sex. You're a young man. However, God doesn't like that. God doesn't want you to be doing that. And instead of feeling shame about that, I think that the best thing you could do is go to God and be honest and humble and say, God, I like this. You created this, but you think it's wrong. Why? Why is it wrong to you? Because I'm enjoying it. Can you show me, help me see sex and women in the way that you see it so I can feel the way you feel about it? And I had to do that personally with so many things in my life, sex included, and essentially say, God, like, I need to humble myself because you know more than me. You see things differently. You exist and you created this. So all I know is what I know, but show me what you know. And that will evolve me. And being willing to be changed, being humble enough to know that you're probably wrong in your view of that. and being willing to let God kind of work in your life because I think once you open that door, there's no closing it. And that truly will change your life. Cause I think like that's how what I had to do, know, like God, love my sin, but you don't love it. And you're pretty smart, you know? So like, want to, I want to be, I want to be on the team that's winning. So can you tell me what you know that I don't clearly? And that prayer has like gotten me out of a lot of things. It's really like cleared up a lot of gunk out of my heart. So I think that that would be good nugget. That's great. One of the things that caught me when I was beginning, when I knew nothing, I mean, I didn't even know John 316 when I started. I had no idea. I remember that I watched a football game with someone and somebody held up a sign that said John 316 and I went, what's that? The guy just poked me in the ribs and thought I was making fun of it. I went, no, no, what is it? And that's how theologically unprepared I was for life. But when I gave my life to Jesus, I didn't say, God, I'm intellectual, you have to prove yourself. I said, God, you're smart, I'm not. And I realize you're all smart. You're smart in every way. And I'll never be able to squeeze the ocean of your knowledge into this little thimble of a brain. So I'm not going to try to make you be like me. I want you to make me like you as much as you can allow. And when I did that, all of a sudden I had a hunger to find out what made him happy. You know, when I met my wife, she'd write me a note, the next day I'd it memorized. I could lose the paper and it wouldn't matter because it was burned into me already. I loved her. When I fell in love with Jesus, I wanted that love to be deeper. than any love I would have with a human being. wanted to be wholly owned so that I could please him with what I say, what I do, how I act. Was I always successful? ⁓ no. But what I was is willing. I stayed surrendered. I stayed teachable. I allowed people who've been down the road further and no more to help me. turn the light on and then reveal to me what I'm seeing because I had what you were talking about it later what you see kind of applying versus what God sees. ⁓ That's huge because we live especially in the culture we live in it's I I mean me what you know I'm offended I'm this I'm that the problem is we don't wear if we give our lives to Jesus we were wholly owned by sin and when we give our hearts to Jesus. We give over the ownership from the sinful life we had to new ownership. But someone who doesn't want to destroy us like the evil did, who wants to bless us and heal us and restore us and rebuild us and renew us and make something beautiful out of the resources that we thought weren't too good. He makes something beautiful out of that. In that process, we discover daily how much more rich he is. You step out off that cliff by faith, knowing that God is God and He's not going to hurt me. So I can wait for Him to catch me. I don't have to have, you know, 35 degrees from college to have faith. We're all given a measure of faith. Now what we do with it is what you're talking about, applying it. Making sure that we know we can apply, we can explain. Question that was asked to me, that really caught me off guard, it was a 90-some year old pastor sitting down in Georgia, he wanted to tell me something as a young buck. He said, if you were arrested today for being a Christian, is there enough evidence in your life that you could be found guilty? ⁓ my gosh, that's good. And I said, I'm... He said, if you can't be proven that you are a Christian enough that people will say that's a Christian. If you're not living it well enough that people already know before you open your mouth, then you don't know Him well enough to open your mouth. ⁓ Those sentences always scare me. You know, something like... So rather than run, you run to Him. and you get guilty. You make sure there's evidence. You go out and learn how to win souls and do it. Don't say this is uncomfortable and it's awkward. Well, I'm not sure what I'd say. You say, well, let me tell you about what happened to me. I think that evangelism used to look one way, know, stand on the street corner and evangelize or be in a church and be a preacher. And both of those are scary for a lot of people. And I personally would never do that. But I do think that we God also meets us where our talents are. And I think that you can do this within your workplace and you do it within your friend groups. even that is a micro version of standing on the street corner shouting scripture. But I think that, you know, the encouragement, I guess, is that you don't have to stand on the street corner in order to be found, quote, guilty of being Christian. can do it quietly within just the spaces you already exist. But you do it. Yeah. And it's not about being Billy Graham. It was never to be Billy Graham. You were to be you and the real you and the best you that God can make in you. I'm bold because that's who I am. You know, I've been struggling my whole life and when I got saved, now I struggle for the Lord. I have to fight my body, but that doesn't stop me. It just means I have to push a little harder. Some people, I married a woman who was so tender. She's so shy. And for the first five years of her ministry, the only time we heard anything from her was when we did kids ministry and I gave her a script and she'd read it. Because she didn't have the boldness. But as she fell in love with Jesus, we've done 50 years of ministry, she teaches Bible studies all over the world. She preaches sermons that run circles around mine. But it's not because she had to be me. And I didn't have to be her. We just had to be the real us. And if you're not called to be on the street corner, then get off the street corner. We'll find out what it is God wants you to do and immerse yourself in it and then do it and do it passionately. Do it lovingly. Even if your passion is gentle, don't turn. You don't have to turn up the volume. You turn up the passion. That's that's that witness with you. Can you feel that? Yeah, I mean, I think that it's important to be authentic about how much the Spirit's moving in you. And if you don't feel the Spirit moving in you and you don't feel close to God, then I still think that the onus is on you to call out to God and bring him into your life. I think that people are much more authentic than we think. And if we're being honest, they just simply don't feel the Spirit. I think people are passionate about what they're passionate about. But if they're not being passionate about God, I don't think they're really feeling him, which means they're not really running towards him, which means they're not really seeking him. But when you see a vision from God, you can't stop talking about it. When you feel God's hand in your life and you see him save you in a way that can't be explainable other than being God, you're going to talk about it. And so I think people just need to want that and they need to invite that into their lives just so God can move. And then they have something to talk about. But I think people aren't excited simply because there's nothing to be passionate about because they're not really moving because they don't feel God's moving. like all that to say it's on you. to call out to God. Exactly. And then he will respond. I remember that I had, I visited someone when I was an evangelist and they me their Grand Canyon photos on slides. And I sat for almost two hours looking at different sides of the Grand Canyon. I was so unmoved that I had to really fight to not fall asleep. And I just wrote a fortune. But you know, ⁓ after a while it was like, I'm so over, it's like, it's too many desserts, it's too much of anything. You get to the point you're not really there. When I went to the Grand Canyon and I looked at it and I experienced it, ⁓ that changed everything. There's a lot of people operating on the photo or the picture of who God is in their head and their heart and what grandma used to say and what dad said and what Pastor Smith said when I was 12. but they're not living it now, they're they're living on the snapshots. Totally. And what God wants is us to get out of the camera, get into focus on what God sees. And whatever that is, allow Him to give you passion. And I can see you do that. And I see you do that well. Thank you. And ⁓ I'm sure that, you know, in 74, I don't speak to every young person because not everyone, they look at the outside and say, he's old. And they discount right away. And that's not bad or good. It's just how it is in our culture. But I do find that a lot of young people now are coming to me and saying, You've got to know something different. I want to know what you know, because you're 74 and excited. I look at my dad and he's 40 and ⁓ there's no excitement there. I want what you got because what he's got is not enough. And that doesn't make dad bad. just means dad needs to keep pushing. He needs to get in deeper. He needs to be accountable, like you would say. At the same time, just because daddy ain't doing it, don't mean you can't. You can get out of your comfort zone, get hungry for something important, and immerse yourself in it and discover how amazing it is. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's great advice. So, you know, ⁓ I got to ask, have you written a Are you on your way to one? I wrote a children's book. That counts. It counts. Yeah. Any. But the reason why I ask is because there are people who when they view these kinds of podcasts and you've got you've spoken to them, they want more. And so at some point, I would think that God may speak to your heart to tell you to reach a different audience with it. Yeah, I mean, I wrote a children's book in Covid. So this was before the podcast. called Frasier the Furred. It's about a Christmas tree understanding the meaning of Christmas, which is Jesus. It's a really cute book. Of course, it's a book, though, so you don't make any money on it, but it's on Amazon. But if people want to learn more about me. ⁓ I don't really like reading, that's probably why I haven't written a book. But if people do want to continue learning about me, the best way would be to go to my website. It's called bibspeak.com. It's B-I-B-S-P-E-A-K dot com. And that's kind of like the hub for biblically speaking. It's where you can find information on the guests that I've hosted. You can find all the places the podcast is playing. You can buy merch. You can donate. You can... ⁓ find me on Instagram and follow me and DM me personally. Donating even like even just committing to $1 a month is like transformative for the show. It pays for everything. This is an expensive hobby that I have. Or just following or referring or rating the show if you can't afford to donate. That's also very transformative. I would just recommend that if you want to keep learning about me, go to bibspeak.com. There's a contact form if you want to email me if you have a guest that you think should come on the show if you want to come on the show if you want to bring me on your show that'd be about the best way that's awesome and we have a friend who does my energy at the engineering part of the podcast for me and he will make sure that your website is listed as a pop-up in the finished product so people will be able to not have to race and write it down while we're doing while they're driving or whatever They can look it up later. But you know God is using you and that needs to be recognized. Thank you. Because people are looking for someone that can say they can say well she's an ordinary person but she's not God's using her and that's a big deal because that means if they can use you God can use you then maybe they can use us. Yeah ⁓ my gosh I am the least qualified person if he's using me he could use anybody. But see, when I gave my life to Jesus, I didn't think I had one thing of value. I didn't think I had any creativity. I didn't think I had anything to offer. I felt totally empty and unused and unusable of zero value. And when I gave my life to Jesus, I said, I'll give you all of me. But what I was saying is, not getting much. You know, you're really not. But you know, know this is what you got, but you want me anyhow, so you can have me. If you want me to do something for you, you better help because right now I can't give you much. But what God has done has been amazing to me and to all the people who have ever met God me. Not because of me, but because that's just how good God is. And I can't wait to find out from some of our viewers how God is working in their lives. And I'm excited about the opportunity. to know that people's lives can be changed because they accept the fact that God created them. Accept the fact that God made them from the inside out. That when Jesus bore the stripes on his back, that was for our healing, not just for broken bones, but broken hearts, broken spirits, just broken. He can heal those things and he can fill us with his Holy Spirit when we give him room. And he can change us from the inside out, one step at a time. We don't have to jump off the Eiffel Tower. All we have to do is just say, God, you know more than me, and I'm going to trust you for what I don't know. And I'm just going to dive off in faith into you. God's going to do great things for So we're getting ready to close our time together. But as we do, ⁓ I just am really grateful for you that you've taken the time to be with us today. ⁓ If you would like to come back on another time, just let me know. There's certainly going to be an open door. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on, David. This was a wonderful conversation. Well, it's all about surrender. that's the best thing we can offer anybody is. Give God room. Surrender. Don't fight the fear. Don't fight the doubt. Don't fight what the world has fed us. And when we should have been eaten steak, we've been eaten pambalum. We need to find out what else is there and get into it. When you apply it, it changes everything. Because God changes us, which is everything. So we're going to get ready to close. Would you like to close us in prayer? Sure. This is a good time. Okay. Father God, thank you for your presence. Thank you for my brother David and the amazing thing that you've done with his life. Thank you for using us to show everyone the characteristics of what a loving and gracious and merciful God that you are. And Lord, I just pray that anybody that hears this episode may be graced with your presence in a way that allows them to witness your love and share it with others so that others may come to know you. ⁓ Thank you for being such a big God, a big God that wants us, that chases us. God that has big things in stores for our lives and Lord I just I pray that everyone listening has boldness and courage in their hearts and that they seek after the Lord and they enact in their lives what the Lord has for them and Lord I just I pray a blessing upon them. May your face shine upon. I just I thank you for David and his life. I pray for a blessing on this podcast and the lives that it reaches and I pray that we carry you within us as we go about our day today. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for being with us, Cassian. This has been amazing. For all you viewers, my advice always is, seek after God, He will be found. You want to know God, Jesus is the way. It doesn't matter what your building is, it matters what your heart is willing. Seek after God, He will be found. This has been the God Says Yes Podcast with David Ebel. To connect with David, email him at GodSaysYesPodcast.gmail.com. You can get his latest book, When the Doctors Say No, God Says Yes at Amazon.com.