Cathy Garland

David W Ebel: you Welcome to the God Says Yes podcast. You are welcome here. Welcome to another episode of God Says Yes. My name is David Ebel. I'm your host. After ministering for over 50 years, touching lives all over the world, in this chapter, podcasts give me a chance to visit people in their homes, in their cars, wherever they go. We're looking for an audience of people who can listen and understand. We come with no condemnation, no judgment at all. We're here with you, not about you. And we want to know how we can be an encouragement to you. If you've been wounded, hurt, betrayed, belittled, someone's let you down, you've been hurt in church by somebody who really needs Jesus desperately and in process their acting out has hurt you, on behalf of the body of Christ, I apologize for them. It doesn't make it right that they're like that, but the church is the emergency room of the body of Christ. so wounded people do come, but our goal is to make sure that people that when they get hurt find out that Jesus never left them. He custom made them to love from the inside out. and he made them in his image so that he could not only love them, but he could love through them. And so God wants us to do a wonderful job of loving people. And we want to love you and help you, accept you as you are. Doesn't matter where you've been, what you've done. We are here for you and we want to be the best encouragement we could possibly be. So I have with me my guest for today, Kathy Culver-Garland. Kathy is an ⁓ really talented and deeply spiritual woman. She's one of my sisters in Christ and ⁓ she'll explain her how it all works together, her dad was an amazing pastor and taught her well, invested in her well. As a result, she now has the tools necessary to not only continue his ministry, but God has enhanced it into hers so that she has the knowledge of two lifetimes served for the Lord. And she's a suffering coach. She does all kinds of things. So rather than me trying to translate everything that I know about her, I'm going to invite Kathy to come on, introduce herself, and then we'll begin our story together. Kathy, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome. Thank you, it's good to be here, I'm excited. You're right, I come from generations of those who've stood on top of each other's shoulders to look for the mountain of God. My grandmother, my father's mother, was saved on the dirt floor of a revival tent under Maria Woodworth Etter. So that'll tell you how long and how far their ministry poured through me continues to build. So it's a real honor. and a treasure, I do not discount those shoulders that I stand on. Amen. So, me a little bit, tell us a little bit about yourself, you know. You have a family? I do. I'm married to Mickey and we've been married for a number of years. Don't ask me. I'm one of those who can't remember numbers or dates or birthdays, but I'll We have that in common. That's just the way it is. But I have two children, both in elementary school. I had them later in life. I had them later in life because I went through so many different unexpected sufferings. I was divorced at a young age, abandoned, you could say. I thought I was going to have the marriage and the picket fence and the chicks in a row. No, it did not happen like I found myself divorced. ⁓ I lost children in miscarriage. I thought I was never going to have children I fell in love with Mickey who didn't want children and then waited for Almost seven years to have my son when I was married so ten altogether. I waited for my children and ⁓ My son was the first child. He's a double rainbow baby Which is a rainbow baby is someone who's born to you after you've lost enough child and so it's a double rainbow baby and then I've broken my neck in car accidents, ski accidents, you know it's just one of those things where you say how much suffering does a person need in order to break when they listen to my story and I tell them that's not the way I look at it because in each of the different aspects of the story it was knowing God and being known by God that made all the difference Difference and instead of leaning away from God in suffering I leaned further deeper in Amen. And thank you for helping us understand you because I think that's primarily why we're here, is so that we can see God shine through you. They already know me, but I'd love them to know you ⁓ beautifully. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to invite you to tell your story. ⁓ Who you were, who you are, what God has done for you, and ⁓ what kind of encouragement can that be for our listeners and viewers? Sure, so I grew up in the church as you alluded to my father and mother were ministers pastors associate pastors and ⁓ I Loved growing up in the church. It was up until about 13 They were all hippies. We were at each other's house They were all saved in the Jesus movement if you've ever seen the Jesus movement movie with Kelsey Grammer I just I just watched that thing was like ⁓ that was my childhood. It was really very much everyone sharing with each other whatever they had and then asking each other, what is God doing in your life? What is God saying to you? So I grew up in that and then the business world took over the church. And even though my dad stood against it, I feel like it was just a wave after wave that just chewed people up and spit them out. And I, as a 13 year old, could see the change and I saw what was happening. And so I told my parents, I don't know if I want to follow this path that you've set out in front of me. I don't know that he's really real. And so they did not panic, which I think some parents would panic. My dad took me to a theological library. We checked out books on absolutely every major religion and quite a few minor ones. And I studied them under his tutelage, asking questions. went to conferences, we studied. And eventually I came to the realization that Jesus was who he said he was and that he wanted a relationship specifically with me and I think when I talked to other Pastors kids and and I wasn't one of those pastors kids, you know the partying pastors kids But I know why they go that way and when I talked to them one of the things that we talk about is the fact that We imbibe to sort of understanding that God loved everyone, but did he love me and I think that's an important important realization that God specifically created us to receive you you talked about this just a second ago to receive from him the love and the presence that he pours out so that we can return it back to him and let it flow to a broken world and so ever since that realization I was about 14 I have built back if you will instead of deconstructed I I've reconstructed a ⁓ thriving, ⁓ on fire walk with God ever since that moment. I love it. so continue, tell us more. Well, know, one of the things that I encountered was what I would call Absolute surrender. It's a book written by Andrew Murray, but the way that I encountered it wasn't sort of you know in the brain It was one of those very real experiences. You said you heard the voice of God ⁓ Audibly call you into the ministry He did not do that, but I was driving along complaining to him about my life and where it was headed and There was a really big Georgia typhoon storm and I shouldn't have been out in it But I was coming home from some work thing. I was a part of a Production studio in Atlanta and it was worldly and But I was still doing my devotions. I was still serving in church I was still doing all the dots and crossing of the T's and then I was miserable and I said Lord if you could just have the lightning hit one of these trees and Knock me out and take me home. You know, I'm not gonna plow myself into a tree, but I'll I'll take it You know, I said ⁓ Would you just take me home? And then out of the passenger seat of my car, I heard him say out loud, if you don't want your life, I do. And so I about hit a tree, pulled over the side of the road and said, okay, I've been serving you all this time and I've been building a vibrant walk with you, but I've never heard your voice or been absolutely 100 % sure that the voice I heard was his, you know, kind of thing. And so I said, we're going to have a conversation and we did. And he said, I want you to surrender everything and he walked me through it because surrender is something I can understand. I think the church had always used the term yield and I did not understand that. That was impossible for me to understand. But surrender, that I understood. And that was like growing up in the church, you would go to camps and you would plug in to camp and you'd have a revival experience and then it would just eke out of you in the weeks afterwards. But absolute surrender. was like a lamp and I was plugged into that source that never stops. So that was a big turning point in my life. Absolute surrender. And so how did that work? Explain to us how that, when that happened, how did it change you? Well first he said I want you to surrender me your boyfriend. So I had a boyfriend at the time so of course done. You know I gave that up quick. Then he said I want you to surrender me this and surrender me that. And I just did as quickly as possible. And then it came to the point where he said now I want all of you. And before he said that, here's what he said. He said you have, you need to surrender to me your worst fear. And I was like what is my worst fear? I mean I'm not a very fearful person. And so was like, I don't know what that is. So I asked a bunch of people and some people said, you know I would hate being paralyzed for the rest of my life and having to be cared for. Then my cousin who was a pastor's daughter, she said, I would fear being sent to the cannibals to work in South America. And I'm pretty sure that most pastors' daughters and sons are kind of afraid of that one too. And so I said in my heart, no, that's not my fear. Because if I knew that God was calling me there, Then I would know that I was sent and then the Holy Spirit spoke to me and he said you're afraid of getting up on the altar and surrendering everything Because you're afraid it's not gonna get my attention that your best your full self is not enough for me to accept and There's a thing in the church and even outside the church where women have a fear of not being enough And it means like not enough as a mom not enough as a wife not enough of this not enough of an employee. That's not the real fear. The real fear is, is my everything enough for him? That answer is yes, it is. And so that moment I walked outside, got up on the altar in my heart and said, okay, Lord, all that I am, the good, the bad, the ugly, all that I'm not and everything I ever hope to be, I surrender absolutely. And that was a white flag moment. I love it. Keep going. Well, after that, I began to do a lot of ⁓ ministry work, ⁓ even though I felt very disqualified because at that time I was divorced. So I married young. I was in the purity culture, which harmed a lot of people. But I came through pretty, pretty good on that route because of my hippie parents. But I found myself divorced. My husband, my first husband was addicted to pornography and I did not satisfy. So there you go. I wasn't enough for him, you know, and so ⁓ I found myself divorced and childless. I had had a miscarriage. It was a disaster of a marriage from start to finish. our honeymoon night, he told me he was addicted to pornography, but now he was going to be okay. He also told me that he had wanted 10 kids. That's one of the reasons I married him, but he told me he didn't want to have children. He never wanted to talk about it ever again. So it was a really hard marriage. from the very beginning. And eventually I found myself divorced. And at the time I was the only divorced person I knew. definitely the first in the church, you know, and it was a scarlet letter of a sort. And I felt very disqualified. But I was working at the church and I was volunteering and ministering and there was still a place for me. My pastor's wife kept pulling me to her side. ⁓ And then there was a moment I was serving at a youth camp we had a very wonderful youth camp and we went there and I forget who the leader was at the time, but it was some famous guy ⁓ probably the true love weights guy or somebody like that and ⁓ He he got up there to start his message We had just finished singing and I was turning around grabbing my Bible, you know to sit down on my chair Just a few seconds of turning around he said Stop you the Lord wants to talk to you. It's like what please don't do that Please don't please please be the person next to me not this person. But anyway, then he he spoke some Amazing things that I had not even admitted to anyone to put in my own journal you know the deep things of the heart that that you have that you Hold on to and you hope for and he said you are not disqualified in these kinds of things and sent me back on the path. I still had a lot of healing to do and the church did not have any kind of understanding of wound healing process. And so I began to learn that process, one, because I needed it, and two, because I began to be surrounded by other people who I recognized had similar wounds. Maybe not divorce, but certainly rejection and ⁓ father wounds and generation of what I would call curses or covenantal consequences that had been handed down to them from their ancestors, like Paul says. They needed to put those things off and put on the new. And so I began to explore ⁓ deliverance, what we would call current day deliverance ministry, and healing prayer. And I started serving in ⁓ a pathway home for girls and a program, Wellspring in Atlanta working with girls who've been sex trafficked or drug addictions and years and years and generations of ⁓ problems that they had to unwind and unravel and so I began to rely entirely on the Holy Spirit because this was not a popular thing at the time and and so many people would say well, you know a Christian they're saying they can't have a demon and I'm like Well, they have some so I don't know what to tell you but they need to go, you know People always ask me are they in are they out? I don't care I just tell them to go which is what Christ did. He didn't bother wondering if they're in or out He just said go so I began to learn how to do deliverance and healing prayer and also deal with trauma and mental illness and so now I guess like you said I'm a suffering coach people here about me and they say, hey, I'm suffering, I'm going through a divorce, I'm going through a miscarriage, I'm going through childlessness, and then I walk with them however the Holy Spirit leads for however long the Holy Spirit leads. Awesome. The body of Christ needs more people who are willing to be that surrendered, who are that that are sold out enough that will not only do the things that are very visible, you get recognized and get certificates for, but the things that change lives forever. Yeah. I'm grateful you're there. So ⁓ what is the next step for you? Well, you know, as I began to talk with my dad about the way that God reveals himself in our stories and in the Bible. And this, I had this revelation of who God is, says he is in the Old Testament, particularly in Genesis. And I became so excited about the Old Testament. And listen, your audience needs to know I was never an Old Testament girl. There's a lot of weird things in the Old Testament, like sacrifices and people who are rebellious and entire like think of cracks opening and swallowing up an entire family. There's hard things in the Old Testament. I've never been excited about it. Give me Jesus all the way. But I was suddenly excited about the Old Testament because I was discovering the Jesus revealed in Genesis. The God who reveals himself. He says, I'm the God who sees you. I'm the God who hears you. I'm the God who leads you. And all the different ways that he reveals himself is So excited and he said we've got to talk to the interns about this and I started sharing it and then he wrote on the board why Why does God reveal himself and he said for the purpose of relationship and he accidentally had a brain fart he wrote Revelation ship and then we had our aha moment. We need to write that we need to help people see Where has God already been revealing himself not just in the church the four walls not just in the Bible, because I encounter people who've never been in church, might not actually be accepted in church, I can tell you story about that, or, you know, they haven't read the Bible, they certainly don't understand it yet, and so God is revealing Himself in so many different ways, dreams, visions, nature, He's revealing Himself in suffering, He's disturbing them, messing up their ordered lives in order to get a hold of them, these are ways that He reveals That's the key your listeners need to know that the God of the universe is pursuing them This is not something where we climb a mountain to a guru on the top and ask for advice This is something where the God of the universe came down, right? To be with us Emmanuel to dwell with us was the whole purpose of the whole Bible if people want to know the Bible in a nutshell I will be their God they will be my people I will dwell with them. That's the whole purpose of everything he does. And so I was excited sharing those revelations with people and helping them discover he's already been revealing himself. You just didn't see it. And then when they see it, they can't unsee it. And then they be getting excited too, because they realize that all along God has been calling to them, drawing them, wooing them, and walking alongside them. That is so deep. That is amazing. grateful that you clarified that because not only are people who are just coming into faith, but there's a lot of people who are what I call multi-generational Christians. Mom and dad were the hippies and fired up and then they have kids and somehow we filter that down and the kids get a little less and they become Jesus loves me this I know because mom told me. so instead of having a personal intimate relationship, they have been more of an intimate Intellectual relationship Jesus is in their heart, but there's a big message Missing peace between the heart and the head and and so they need to develop their own personal relationship Don't look at the failures in the church. Don't look at the knuckleheads put your eyes on Jesus through the cross and Invite him to reveal himself Not just aha or I come to an altar and cry and now I'm good But that that that come to the altar is necessary, whether you do it at the foot of your bed, or, you know, I can't kneel, so I come and stand. That's okay. I'm still humble in my heart. And that's what God's looking for is open and humbled hearts, not perfect bodies. It's not a performance thing where you've got to get rid of this and do that and got to stop this before I can come to Him. He takes you as you are because He created you to love. He created you to be like Him from the inside out. And He's always loved you, and you can't even do anything wrong enough to stop that love. You can't run from it. That love is guaranteed from the day that you were created. And He's been waiting patiently all this time for you to come to a place where, you know, you finally go, OK, I've tried all this stuff and it doesn't work. Now I'm really ready. OK, God, I surrender. And when that word surrender, when you mentioned it, I nodded my head because that's the key to the lock that holds back so many believers. They give up some, but they have a closet with a few things tucked in it that they don't want to deal with. And as a result, those are the things that hinder them from walking in victory and walking in healing and walking in hope. some of the most powerful ministry people that I've ever been involved with started out in the most miserable ways. by surrender, by God working through them, God used their story and can change their lives. And now their ministry is their story because of what they made through. Other people can identify with that, feel safe with it, and they can trust God the same way. And that is the most powerful thing. He is, He always will be, and for eternity, He can't wait to be with us. That's right, and he's not watching just patiently he's actually you know the father in the prodigal son story is scanning the horizon for our return I There's something I think we've tell that prodigal story so many times we lose the impact of it, but That's son. I just want to be clear never stopped being a son. This is important because People think that what they do disqualifies them or what happens to them or decisions that they make Granted you might have to live in some pig pen circumstances because of some of your bad decisions You can get out of that eventually but my point is that you never stop being a son So when he went to the father and he said basically I wish you were dead and I want you my inheritance now because you're taking too long to die and then he goes off in another country and lives it up and tries on all the identities he wants to try on until he runs out of money and there's a famine which was probably sent by God in order to get his attention and then the only job he can find is to work with the pig farmer who probably gave him the job because he knew he was a Jew and it was a degrading job to a Jew and he's sitting there envying the corn on the cob the pigs eating and he's like hmm maybe I can't be a son but maybe I can go home and be a servant so he's trying on yet another identity. like maybe I can negotiate another identity. He goes home to the father. The father sees him a long way off. See, he's been waiting for that shadowy figure to come over that horizon for who knows how long. And then he comes over the horizon, he hikes up his skirts, and an old man in Middle East does not run, but he does. And he runs up to him and he says, the son that I have lost is returned to me. And the son tries his little memorized speech. And the fathers have a none of it because he's never stopped being a son and then he puts the robe on him and Sandals on his feet and a ring on his finger to say you're my son And then he declares to the world he doesn't this this kid doesn't have to apologize to the rest of the world He says you're my son and you never stopped being my son and even the second brother still didn't know what he was He thought he was a servant He was mad and grumpy about the fact that nobody threw him a party and he said You know, I'm upset about this and the father's like why you're my son Everything is yours and I just I hope your listeners hear me when I say no matter what you never stop being a son or a daughter exactly and that's a big deal because ⁓ We live in a meat grinder world where if we listen to what the world says you deserve a break today. No, you don't Yeah, which would what you deserve is is a terrible life without God and a wonderful beginning of a life in Him. And so the world tells us all these quarter truths. They're not, they're, there's some, in every lie, there's a piece of truth or it's not believable. Right. But that there's just enough truth in it that it makes people make go, hmm, is it, that for me? But the problem is, ⁓ if you give them somebody a quarter of real and they go, there's two, three quarters are poison. That real piece isn't going to keep you alive. And the, the, the promise problem, the promises of this world, ⁓ they, they satisfy for about that long, just a short time. And then we degrade what else we're willing to do. Whatever standards we have, we're willing to give up a little piece here and a little piece there until one day we look at the mirror guy and go, who are you? How did I get here? I don't remember falling so far. How did I get in this shape? But the Heavenly Father never stopped loving you all the way down the slide, all the failures on the way. He always loved you and believed that you would come home. And that's what we want for all of you is to come home. Don't blame the people who hurt you or the church-hurt idiots that are out there doing the wrong. Trust God. through Jesus, you have a way to God that is clear and fresh and new with no obstructions. I'm not saying your life's gonna be easy, but compared to your life without God, it's gonna be phenomenally better than you'd ever dream. And that's what we want. That's why this podcast exists, is to encourage people to come get close to their Father, the real Father, not the kind who can be mean or abusive or whatever or let you down, the heavenly Father, the one that's perfect. Created you to love, still loves you, and can't wait to pour on even more love. I love that. That's right. And I feel like when we deal with church hurt, because it's a real thing, we don't want to marginalize that. We don't want to sideline it. We don't want to gaslight people. It happens. There are people who hurt us along the way. But I say to people, don't let somebody else's evil keep you from having everything that you could possibly have. Your life with Christ isn't going to be easy, but it's going to be extraordinary. you get. I agree. This is exciting stuff. ⁓ I hope that others can feel the sincerity and the intensity of what you're saying because ⁓ it comes from a life of surrendered. You know it because you've lived it. To know it in your head means you've got, it's like going to the Grand Canyon. You look at the pictures of the Grand Canyon before you go and they're remarkable. They're stunning. But when you get to the Grand Canyon and you stand at the bar that says don't fall off the edge and you're looking in it live, it's not like the picture. Right. You're experiencing it and it's full and it's rich and you'll never be the same because of the live experience. Well, God created the Grand Canyon, so how much bigger is His love in all that He has for you than part of His creation? You're the only part of His creation that He created like Him, placed His Holy Spirit in Him, and called Him to love. Nothing else in his creation can choose God, but God chose you so you can choose him. That's right. That's right. And then he not only does he love you and that's what draws you, but he sends his Holy Spirit in order to empower you because we wouldn't be able to do this on our own. And I do feel like in many cases, much of the church hurt that happens is because of legalism, trying to do it on our own, striving, which is never what God intended. and take the law and they start banging people over the head with it and and telling taking scriptures out of context like what happened with your mother and and in so many cases Wounding people with the very thing that's supposed to set them free. So in many cases I find legalism is obeying a set of rules outside of what God has ordained Okay, and there's even a bunch of rules that were eliminated, you know the Old Testament because we no longer need the ceremonial laws. We still have to observe moral laws. Anybody listening understands that we should not be committing adultery. That's an easy one. Or murdering. Another easy one. Although you can get into some context of that one. know, so there's moral law, but we're on our own. I think that's part of the walk with Christ is understanding that the Holy Spirit is going to do it. So as we surrender, what do we surrender? To we're surrendering to the Holy Spirit. Why are we doing it so that he will transform us from the inside out and Develop within us the fruit of the Spirit and this is how we know the fruit is The Spirit is present by the fruit love and joy and peace and patience and an on and on and so the point of my Tyra here is that if we're doing it on our own we're doing it wrong Now we're in the whole doing it wrong sphere You can obey the laws or try. There's like 613 of them. Good luck with that. And that's what the Jews thought they were doing when Christ appeared on the scene and then he's telling them, no, I'm not here to deliver you from the Romans. I'm here to deliver you from the sin that is killing you. And that has always been his mission to deliver us from the sin that's killing us. And people say, ⁓ the wrath of God, the wrath of God. Don't talk to me about the wrath of God. The wrath is not poured out on the human person. It's poured out on the sin. He's mad about the thing that's killing you. And rightly so. He's mad about the thing that separates you from living and thriving and doing all that he wants for you. and with you, that's the thing he's mad about. And people say, didn't know that. I thought he was mad at me. No, he's not mad at you. He's mad at the things that are killing you. And I say, rightly so. I would get mad at anything that's killing my daughter or my son. I would get mad and I would be right to be so, right? Absolutely. You know, it's funny when you were talking about, you know, using legalism like a tool. I imagine, I remember the day that I needed to hang a picture for my wife. And ⁓ all I had was a screw and a nail, but I didn't have a hammer. And so I was trying, in my best attempt, to use the back of a screwdriver as a fake hammer to get that nail in enough I could hang the picture. The logic made sense, but when I used it and slipped off and punctured my hand pretty deeply, I came to a real revelation instantly that using the tool the wrong way is not the brightest move I've ever made. And I came to the realization that the reason for rules is God loves us enough to not let us fall off the edge. Right. Not because he likes to watch us be miserable. He's not a guy in a robe with a big mallet saying, ahead, mess up. I can't wait. He's the one that says, I don't want you to hurt. If you're a good parent, you're raising your kids. You don't just say yes. You have to say no or wait because not... You know, we don't always know what the parent knows. Right. And the kid's going to throw the temper tantrum over something that's going to hurt him. Right. So the parent has to say, no, I love you too much to let you do that. The Heavenly Father is not wanting us to live by the rules. He wants us to live by the Holy Spirit and love. The love of God revealed in His forgiveness and healing and peace and joy and hope. these things that are are that are revealed when we finally surrender our hearts to him. That's right. That's right. There's a quote in a book that I love. It's I have to think of it and I'll send it to you for the show notes. But there's a quote about the love of God that I love so much because it shows how obsessed God is with us. And I use that term it's a human term but it's the best term I've got. So it goes like this it goes likewise. The love of God a prominent theme in both testaments is never kitschy or sentimental His love is tenacious as oak roots potent as a typhoon It is as abrasive as much as it is soothing It scours and breaks us before it sets us right in order to set us right It never lets us alone It is so fierce this love of God that many choose to be condemned rather than to step into the light of it for God so loved the world Jesus said that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life that's the love of God and that's what he calls us to and it's a ride it's a journey it's an adventure it's crazy and it does break us sometimes it breaks off the things that we don't need you know Paul says to put off the old things handed down to us from previous generations and to put on the new. How in the world are we supposed to do that? What you just said, the love of God, the Spirit of God is going to work out Christ in us and in us all the way around to the rest of the world, that's what's needed. If I encounter someone, I encounter someone just this weekend and she asked me what I sold because I was at this little convention thing and I said, ⁓ it's a book, it's a devotional and I was talking about God, 32 names of God and she said, well, What if what what should I say? What would you say to someone who doesn't believe in the God of the Bible? But is very spiritual believes in a higher power and a higher being and I looked her in the eye Took a deep breath and locked and loaded with the Holy Spirit because I care about this human suddenly in front of me really care about her and I said, you know most people who say that to me it's because they have a father wound and they can't Connect with a father outlined in scripture because of the evil that their father inflicted on them and she Went white and she said that's exactly what I have And it was like she was thunderstruck because I had read her mail. didn't read her mail. The Holy Spirit knows her and is drawing her and wants her. So of course I gave her the book because I said, if you'll read this, connect with me. I want to reach out to you. And the very first lesson in this book is Abba. Because if you can't get through that doorway, you won't experience everything else. And we can't let someone else's evil will keep us from having everything that God has for us. Amen. And folks, when this is all done, the books are gonna come up on the screen when Kathy's talking about them. You need to get those books and apply them to your lives. She's written something that's profoundly life-threatening, impacting. Without it, it can be life-threatening. God wants us to get to know the whole picture. He doesn't want us just to have a scrap of the day we give our heart to Jesus. know, coming to the altar is actually the easiest part because you're saying, I don't want green baloney anymore. I want prime rib. I don't want the old world and the ugly I want I want something better But how do I get there from then? That's the part that takes a lifetime and we give it up in little pieces We open our hearts a little more and it's a give-and-take until finally we give it all and When we finally give it all then the amazing things start. Yeah So Kathy if we were to invite you to give a golden nugget to our viewers and listeners something that they could mull over the next week or two that they could resonate in they could you know meditate over whatever whatever way that they they concentrate and pray ⁓ what would you leave with us that would that would be lasting longer than the podcast you know i would say the number one thing i would tell people is that if you're not hearing god You're not feeling him draw you. You're not sure if he's real. Or even if he is real, whether or he's concerned with you. ⁓ It's because you probably have way too many sounds in your life. Too many phones and bings and dings and entertainment and all sorts of demands. I'm a mom. I get demands. I know what it's like to have to go into the bathroom, lock the door and hide away for a few minutes just to have a few minutes of peace. I get it. But we've got to make space for him to show up and to reveal himself. If you can go outside, take off off your shoes, put your feet on the ground, let the silence, it's really not very silent, but we feel like it's silent, the silences, they call it the recreating silences, make a change in your heart and mind. Listen to what he's saying, ask him, show me your glory, show me what you're like, I want to know you better. Ask him however you want in your own words, but it says those who ask will That's a guarantee. So ask for this kind of thing and he will guarantee you show up. People say to me, I haven't heard from God my whole life. What's wrong with me? That's a legit question. What's wrong with me? I don't think there's anything wrong with us. I think we're in a Western culture and that's what's wrong. I have friends who are ⁓ missionaries in Africa and the orphans in their orphanage, they hear from God every night. They have dreams. and visions of Him. Well, they're not watching TV and filling their mind with, you know, other things. And they hear the Lord constantly. And if they have anything that happens, they're taught to take it to the Lord and wait for an answer. These kids know way better than a lot of Christians that I know who are adults and have been attending church for 40 years warming up a pew. I am telling you, he is speaking. It's like a waterfall. You just have to get to it. stick your head under it and maybe tune out all the other sounds and then you will hear what it is that you need to hear from him. Amen. Well that was well said. ⁓ I hope a lot of people will not only listen to this but they'll forward our interview so that others can hear what you were saying because it's that profound. Kathy, I'm so grateful that God sent you to connect with us so that we could share this important message. I'm grateful that God has done this wonderful work. So Kathy, you want to tell us about your books? You can talk about more than one and the website where we can get to know you better. Yeah, I'd love for people to connect with me. And many times they'll send me the hard questions like how does Sodom and Gomorrah reveal something about God? You know, that's a tougher question. Question, but bring it I love it. So connect with me on revelation ship net It's got my email my sub stack my threads my whatever it's all there. You can connect with me I have the Revelation ship book that I wrote with my father the revelation ship devotional which carries people through the book so they can actually do what it's talking about in the book and Then I have the known devotional which is what I was mentioning to that woman. It's 32 names of God ⁓ What they mean for our identity so I make a bridge so if God is this then we are this and I help people understand that that's our identity why because our destiny is very much connected with our Identity and that is why Satan tries to steal our identity because he wants to thwart our destiny So it's very important to know who you are in Christ. I heard that all the time growing up had no idea what that meant none could not understand that. But then as I understood who God was, then I began to understand who I was. So that's why I wrote that, to help people who were in the same predicament I was. And then I also have summer courses that I do one-on-one coaching through either the Revelationship book or the known devotional, and I help them apply. So for example, I mentioned the Abba being the first chapter. I will include Father Wound Healing prayers in that one, obviously. And so that's just an example of what we're doing so people when they go through it They'll find themselves transformed and it's only a few weeks before they start to really tell a difference in their thriving walk with God Versus maybe just kind of groping around in the in the dark hoping that they're doing the right thing somehow So that's that's my heart is and my mission to help people thrive in their walk with God So we can apply those things and getting going to your website we can we can find all the books all the information all the courses and so it's really you've made it very easy and simple for for us to get to you and i'm grateful for that that was that's god's wisdom in action so i'm grateful for you well thank you for having me it's been a delight so what i'm going we're going to do now is we're going to pray and then After we pray, I'll give it a challenge. And then Kathy and I will continue offline for a few minutes. ⁓ But all of you who are listening and viewing, I hope that you'll not only listen to this, but you'll send it to others who need to hear it, because it's truth. And truth, know, God doesn't just send it out. He brings back something when He sends out His truth. In our hearts can be healed, forgiven, delivered, restored, we end up better inside than we were to begin with because the impact of this world loses its grip as the love of God becomes what encapsulates us. We become surrounded in His love and boy that's a great place to be. I can tell you from 50 plus years of experience I can't imagine living a life without it now that I've known it and I want that for everyone who's listening. So let's pray. Heavenly Father, we're grateful for the privilege we've had to share with Kathy today and to learn and be reminded of how much you love us and what it takes to receive that love and to allow change to happen from the inside out. Heavenly Father, we're grateful you sent Jesus. Jesus, we're grateful you came and were willing to be the living sacrifice so that by the shedding of your blood, we can be forgiven and our sins can be washed away, forgotten, never to be found again, so we can live a free, new start life with you. Lord, for each of the listeners and viewers, we pray that you'll reveal yourself in new and beautiful ways and draw them closer to you than ever before. Meet their needs where they are and help them. And we ask, Lord, that you'll do something mighty in each of their lives. And we're grateful for this privilege to share your good news. In Jesus' amen. And as always, the challenge is, if you want to know God, Seek Him. If you want to seek Him and know Him, Jesus is the way to God. Seek after Jesus, He'll show you God, and together you'll have a new life. Be encouraged, be blessed, and whatever you do, don't hold back. Seek understanding. Figure out, you know, find out what God wants from you, and give it to Him and see what happens. Give Him six months to a year to prove Himself. Don't just give him a couple hours. Give him some time and dive in deep and watch what happens. So be blessed, be encouraged, seek after God. This has been the God Says Yes Podcast with David Ebel. Connect with David, email him at godsaysyespodcast.gmail.com. You can get his latest book, When the Doctors Say No, God Says Yes at Amazon.com.